Consumer Reports raises concerns about outsourced airline maintenance

[strikeforce]

The root cause behind US carriers ability to outsource maintenance is the FAA. The Fed's allow US carriers to regulate and monitor their own maintenance programs, and as long as the carriers follow that program to the letter, the feds don't care where the carriers get the work done. It's when the carriers fail to follow those programs that the feds interfare. The unions in this country obviously can't compete against foreign hack shops dollar for dollar. Carriers have maintenance budgets, and really don't care where the work gets done. We all have budgets at home, and when it comes to changing the oil on my car...do I choose the dealer or jiffy lube.....jiffy lube wins because with the difference in cost I can fill the gas tank.

At AA, I'm still scratching my head as to why AA chose in-house maintenance over outsourcing......and the only things that come to mind are....the union diminishing our profession by allowing more lower paid AMT support mechanics to work in the shops, and soon on the docks, thus lowering AA's labor costs overall, and management's overall control and oversight of the maintenance program. Management loves control!

 

[WorldTraveler]

strikeforce,
of course the FAA allows airlines to perform their maintenance wherever they want as long as it meets FAA requirements. The FAA is a safety, not a labor protection agency.
Problem is that Bob and others want to try to paint me as the villain when the reality is that it is the unions who have failed to adapt to the new reality. Outsourced maintenance, just like outsourced manufacturing, is part of today's reality. Yet, Bob and most union leaders can't seem to accept that the world has changed and unions should change too in such a way so that they can obtain "wins" for themselves and their clients.
.
Bob wants to cite aviation safety as being so great now because of the years that unionized US maintenance workers put into the system, acting as if no one else has a right to learn from the past and adapt to them.
Look at the auto industry. Despite the brutal reality that tens of thousands of US autoworkers have been laid off, more mfg even of US cars is outsourced, and foreign cars command a high percentage of US sales, automobiles in the US cost less, do more, and last longer than ever before.
And yet, US labor representation in the auto industry is at all time lows?
Are the unions to blame? Maybe, maybe not.
But the US automakers have figured out how to compete in a difficult and highly competitive industry littered with foreign competition.
But the US labor leaders haven't figured out how to make the new US auto industry work for them - or at least haven't been able to turn around the rolls of union membership.
.
Are the automakers to blame? Heck no. They are doing what they are supposed to do which is to provide a return to their shareholders by profitably selling a product the customer wants.
.
As public officials take aim at public unions, it would behoove Bob and other labor leaders to figure out how they can justify the value of unionized US labor instead of constantly trying to paint everyone else as creating a poor quality product when the reality is that others are in fact producing products and services which consumers want MORE than what old-style unionized labor produces.
.
The sooner Bob and his labor leader friends can figure out how to adapt - just as the industry and as companies have done - the sooner the slide in US organized labor can be stopped. .
Regardless of how many negative votes people want to give my posts, that is the WHOLE and BRUTAL TRUTH.

 

[strikeforce]

The sooner Bob and his labor leader friends can figure out how to adapt - just as the industry and as companies have done - the sooner the slide in US organized labor can be stopped. .
Regardless of how many negative votes people want to give my posts, that is the WHOLE and BRUTAL TRUTH.

The outsourcing of US jobs isn't only a union issue, it's affecting all professions. Telemarketing, customer service, HR, etc. are all relocating overseas. In order for unions and labor to compete against these overseas outfits, labor rates require adjustments that are inconsistant with economic realities. So, unless we re-adjust gas prices, food prices, education costs, and all the other expenses most families endure in this country to the labor rates required to compete, we will NEVER compete. The bottom line is....our government has pumped up these emerging markets and now these emerging markets are taking our jobs.

The problem I have with all this is two-fold...our government allows foreign workers to come HERE, and these foreigners are willing to work for less than our workers, but are making much more than they ever would make in their country, and our government allows US companies to re-locate the remaining jobs overseas.....so, our workers face a double-edged sword. So, how do you expect US workers to compete with this type of set-up? The US government has sold out the US worker! Labor and Business both contribute heavily to our politicians, and business seems to be the one getting our politicians ear. Maybe labor should stop funding the politicians. We lose anyway!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

"To be honest with you, Bob, the more you post, the more I realize why AA labor is in such deep trouble. You can't figure out how to do labor's part to get AA out of the mess it is in, instead choosing to blame everyone else and to believe that the world is all out to get you.
Get a life, Bob, and come up with a strategy to save the jobs of thousands of your members instead of continuing to live in some alternative world. Your inaction only will result in the obvious consequences, including the eventual failure of American Airlines at the hands of a bunch of people including management who sit by and play beautiful music while blaming others as the Titanic sinks."

traveler,

You want honesty? Okay, you are either an idiot or management or possibly both. Why do I say this? Because you believe that Bob Owen's opinions, which mirror mine as well as many other AMTs, is why labor at AA is in trouble. You could NOT be more wrong.

Management lied to AMTs when they paraded, with the twu's assistance, the "shAAred sAAcrifice" song and dance. Bob nor AMTs started this "Great lie". yet we live with the fall out not you.

Management continues to claim they want a cost neutral contract ON TOP of the 8 years of concessions they stole. Bob nor AMTs think this way.

Management and yourself included want labor to do our part to get AA out of the mess management got ourselves in? Well, Bob and AMTs do that by doing our jobs. We don't force management to take executive bonuses while AMTs struggle under the "great lie". What more do you want from us? More concessions? Not going to happen.

Bob's job is not to do managment's job. His job is to protect and promote our craft & profession and inform his members.

As long as you wish to comment on a profession you do not belong to or can fathom the responsibilities that AMTs carry but you feel easy to say what we should or shouldn't do makes you one strange egg. As for your analogy of the Titanic AMTs continue to bail water by continuing to provide safe, airworthy aircraft. Will this Titanic sink? With the current management leadership it will and it will NOT be because of labor.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, I see the ignore is working well.
Problem is that you and others can't seem to grasp that when Bob and his union counterparts take AA down, regardless of whether they get help from AA mgmt or not, your job and the percentage of unionized jobs that AA holds go down the toilet with it.
How about instead you focus on the truth of what I am saying and do what has to be done to turn AA around.
Start by taking your case against AA mgmt to the board of directors and to the investment community with a message that actually rings true to them... instead of peddling some antiquated irrelevant argument about outsourced labor that can't be proven to save your life and about which everyone else has long since accepted.

.
I have nothing against organized labor. I have real problems with anyone - whether it be AA mgmt or labor leaders - who continue to point the finger at everyone else for their problems while attempting to justify their own jobs.
I don't have to belong to AA's labor groups or AA as an organization to realize how badly both groups are doing at figuring out their own survival.
.
While AA continues to sink, other carriers continue to demonstrate that they understand what it takes to operate airlines in the current environement, which by anyone's definition is challenging.
.
Continuing to pretend that there will be a return to the world you knew decades ago is just plain foolish - and the longer you hold onto that thinking, the closer you move AA to its death sentence.
The fact that AA mgmt operates in the same line of thinking only assures that you will all go down together, continuing to point the finger of blame at each other.

 

[strikeforce]

The fact that AA mgmt operates in the same line of thinking only assures that you will all go down together, continuing to point the finger of blame at each other.

So, in Bob and Ken's defense....why didn't AA management lead us in the right direction? They've had 8 years to right this ship. Kind of tells me that management is undermining and sabotaging their own operation because there's no ACCOUNTABILITY, and so management can win additional concessions from US.

Management reminds me of a dog.......been giving it dog food all these years, and just one time gave the dog raw meat, and now all the dog wants is raw meat. In 2003, the TWU allowed management free reign to destroy our contract, and now management is chomping at the bit and wants more! They just can't get enough, and they know we're weak.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

"How about instead you focus on the truth of what I am saying and do what has to be done to turn AA around."

Again, I point out my honest opinion of you wt.

Before, during and after industry leading concessions were TAKEN from AMTs by management AMTs have provided safe, airworthy aircraft which is the very product AA management sells. I can not make an aircraft any safer now than I did before because that would imply I did not do my job correctly in the past. I, and all AMTs, do our jobs to the best of our abilities every day, every night, every flight. We are doing what "has to be done to turn AA around".

Now, in your infinite non-AMT wisdom explain exactly what it is that AMTs need to do to "turn AA around"? If it requires more concessions it isn't going to happen. Your analogy of the Titanic is perfect because lessons were learned by that disaster and with any future failure of AA the lesson to be learned, and learned loud and clear, is that labor was not to blame but rather greedy, unaccountable, inept management was.

I will not put you on ignore because your posts are indicative of what pro-management/anti-labor attitudes in this country are. Continue to hide behind the warmth of your alias because just like hss and cio if I was you I'd be embarrassed to know that people know who I am too.

Labor already gave at the office. The ONLY way AA will survive is for a completely new management team, who understands the value of a respected, skilled work force, to come in and not treat the company like their personal ATM.

By the way, May 24th is AMT Day. If you should happen to be flying that day be sure to thank an AMT. Just identify yourself as someone who feels you are entitled to the cheapest fare and that the AMT should be paid as little as possible.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am in no way letting mgmt off the hook... they have alot to be held accountable for.
.
But my question to you (collectively) is what are you going to do to turn the ship around? And, when AA is overtaken by better run and more nimble competitors, are you all just going to chalk up the past how many years of your life to a bad experience, move onto what is next in your life, and live with the wounds that you have suffered?
.
How about instead of telling us how you are going to burn the company down to make sure they get no more concessions out of you that you hire labor leaders who will take the initiative to develop THEIR OWN turnaround plan for AA, including having labor LEGALLY TAKE control of the company. Convince Wall Street that mgmt's course of action is unsustainable and that you not only care about your jobs but you care about the future of your company - and that you aren't going to sit back and accept failure as the culmination of 8 years of concessions that have come to nothing.
.
How about you march - thousands of you - enough to catch the attention of the national media - on Wall Street, demanding that AMR managment be replaced by someone that understands the airline industry.
Who knows whether Bob Crandall would take the job or not - but I bet you he would sit down and tell you what needs to be done to turn the company around and probably could tell you the names of some people who he thinks could get the job done.
.
And then set your own expectations for what has to be done. The turnaround is not going to be pretty - or easy. But continuing to think that you and other AA people will return to what you once knew is simply unrealistic and I can assure you that you will hold onto those expectations while the last vestiges of AA sink below the surface. Holding on to expectations about doing all maintenance in-house won't cut it when the evidence is overwhelming that outsourced maintenance is not only necessary in order to be cost competitive with the rest of the industry, but despite what you want to believe, it is also just as safe as AA's own in-house maintenance. There are equally significant changes that have to take place with other workgroups based on the same principle; maintenance by no means should bear the brunt of the changes.
I have said many times that AA employees DO NOT need to take more and more paycuts in order to save the company but you do have to come up with workrules that are more productive than anything else in the network carrier industry, not only because AA has to be able to fight to win back the business and markets it has lost but because the damage to AA is great.
.
And yes you need to get new leadership; the fact that AA mgmt has hung around for 8 years after their failed turnaround plan is just plain criminal.
.
The choice is whether you want to continue to sit back and watch AA be beaten to pulp by its competitors because AA is too damaged to fight back or whether you want to do what is necessary to return AA to a position where it can fight back and save not only the company but also your own jobs and the futures of your families.
.
I hope like all get out that someone will decide this is worth fighting for.

 

[Birdman]

I am in no way letting mgmt off the hook... they have alot to be held accountable for.

And yes you need to get new leadership; the fact that AA mgmt has hung around for 8 years after their failed turnaround plan is just plain criminal.

Since we all know that these boards are monitored by AA, why would manAAgement just sit by an not stick up for themselves. These are the trenches of open and honest conversation concerning American Airlines where we can talk about our problems and work on solutions to make this company thrive. Upper AA, your employees would like to challenge you to get involved in these discussions.

 

[Mr Red]

Since we all know that these boards are monitored by AA, why would manAAgement just sit by an not stick up for themselves. These are the trenches of open and honest conversation concerning American Airlines where we can talk about our problems and work on solutions to make this company thrive. Upper AA, your employees would like to challenge you to get involved in these discussions.

They're busy guiding the ship into the ICEBURG !!

 

[sixty/4]

I am in no way letting mgmt off the hook... they have alot to be held accountable for.
.
But my question to you (collectively) is what are you going to do to turn the ship around? And, when AA is overtaken by better run and more nimble competitors, are you all just going to chalk up the past how many years of your life to a bad experience, move onto what is next in your life, and live with the wounds that you have suffered?
.
How about instead of telling us how you are going to burn the company down to make sure they get no more concessions out of you that you hire labor leaders who will take the initiative to develop THEIR OWN turnaround plan for AA, including having labor LEGALLY TAKE control of the company. Convince Wall Street that mgmt's course of action is unsustainable and that you not only care about your jobs but you care about the future of your company - and that you aren't going to sit back and accept failure as the culmination of 8 years of concessions that have come to nothing.
.
How about you march - thousands of you - enough to catch the attention of the national media - on Wall Street, demanding that AMR managment be replaced by someone that understands the airline industry.
Who knows whether Bob Crandall would take the job or not - but I bet you he would sit down and tell you what needs to be done to turn the company around and probably could tell you the names of some people who he thinks could get the job done.
.
And then set your own expectations for what has to be done. The turnaround is not going to be pretty - or easy. But continuing to think that you and other AA people will return to what you once knew is simply unrealistic and I can assure you that you will hold onto those expectations while the last vestiges of AA sink below the surface. Holding on to expectations about doing all maintenance in-house won't cut it when the evidence is overwhelming that outsourced maintenance is not only necessary in order to be cost competitive with the rest of the industry, but despite what you want to believe, it is also just as safe as AA's own in-house maintenance. There are equally significant changes that have to take place with other workgroups based on the same principle; maintenance by no means should bear the brunt of the changes.
I have said many times that AA employees DO NOT need to take more and more paycuts in order to save the company but you do have to come up with workrules that are more productive than anything else in the network carrier industry, not only because AA has to be able to fight to win back the business and markets it has lost but because the damage to AA is great.
.
And yes you need to get new leadership; the fact that AA mgmt has hung around for 8 years after their failed turnaround plan is just plain criminal.
.
The choice is whether you want to continue to sit back and watch AA be beaten to pulp by its competitors because AA is too damaged to fight back or whether you want to do what is necessary to return AA to a position where it can fight back and save not only the company but also your own jobs and the futures of your families.
.
I hope like all get out that someone will decide this is worth fighting for.

 

[sixty/4]

I am in no way letting mgmt off the hook... they have alot to be held accountable for.
.
But my question to you (collectively) is what are you going to do to turn the ship around? And, when AA is overtaken by better run and more nimble competitors, are you all just going to chalk up the past how many years of your life to a bad experience, move onto what is next in your life, and live with the wounds that you have suffered?
.
How about instead of telling us how you are going to burn the company down to make sure they get no more concessions out of you that you hire labor leaders who will take the initiative to develop THEIR OWN turnaround plan for AA, including having labor LEGALLY TAKE control of the company. Convince Wall Street that mgmt's course of action is unsustainable and that you not only care about your jobs but you care about the future of your company - and that you aren't going to sit back and accept failure as the culmination of 8 years of concessions that have come to nothing.
.
How about you march - thousands of you - enough to catch the attention of the national media - on Wall Street, demanding that AMR managment be replaced by someone that understands the airline industry.
Who knows whether Bob Crandall would take the job or not - but I bet you he would sit down and tell you what needs to be done to turn the company around and probably could tell you the names of some people who he thinks could get the job done.
.
And then set your own expectations for what has to be done. The turnaround is not going to be pretty - or easy. But continuing to think that you and other AA people will return to what you once knew is simply unrealistic and I can assure you that you will hold onto those expectations while the last vestiges of AA sink below the surface. Holding on to expectations about doing all maintenance in-house won't cut it when the evidence is overwhelming that outsourced maintenance is not only necessary in order to be cost competitive with the rest of the industry, but despite what you want to believe, it is also just as safe as AA's own in-house maintenance. There are equally significant changes that have to take place with other workgroups based on the same principle; maintenance by no means should bear the brunt of the changes.
I have said many times that AA employees DO NOT need to take more and more paycuts in order to save the company but you do have to come up with workrules that are more productive than anything else in the network carrier industry, not only because AA has to be able to fight to win back the business and markets it has lost but because the damage to AA is great.
.
And yes you need to get new leadership; the fact that AA mgmt has hung around for 8 years after their failed turnaround plan is just plain criminal.
.
The choice is whether you want to continue to sit back and watch AA be beaten to pulp by its competitors because AA is too damaged to fight back or whether you want to do what is necessary to return AA to a position where it can fight back and save not only the company but also your own jobs and the futures of your families.
.
I hope like all get out that someone will decide this is worth fighting for.

 

[sixty/4]

I am in no way letting mgmt off the hook... they have alot to be held accountable for.
.
But my question to you (collectively) is what are you going to do to turn the ship around? And, when AA is overtaken by better run and more nimble competitors, are you all just going to chalk up the past how many years of your life to a bad experience, move onto what is next in your life, and live with the wounds that you have suffered?
.
How about instead of telling us how you are going to burn the company down to make sure they get no more concessions out of you that you hire labor leaders who will take the initiative to develop THEIR OWN turnaround plan for AA, including having labor LEGALLY TAKE control of the company. Convince Wall Street that mgmt's course of action is unsustainable and that you not only care about your jobs but you care about the future of your company - and that you aren't going to sit back and accept failure as the culmination of 8 years of concessions that have come to nothing.
.
How about you march - thousands of you - enough to catch the attention of the national media - on Wall Street, demanding that AMR managment be replaced by someone that understands the airline industry.
Who knows whether Bob Crandall would take the job or not - but I bet you he would sit down and tell you what needs to be done to turn the company around and probably could tell you the names of some people who he thinks could get the job done.
.
And then set your own expectations for what has to be done. The turnaround is not going to be pretty - or easy. But continuing to think that you and other AA people will return to what you once knew is simply unrealistic and I can assure you that you will hold onto those expectations while the last vestiges of AA sink below the surface. Holding on to expectations about doing all maintenance in-house won't cut it when the evidence is overwhelming that outsourced maintenance is not only necessary in order to be cost competitive with the rest of the industry, but despite what you want to believe, it is also just as safe as AA's own in-house maintenance. There are equally significant changes that have to take place with other workgroups based on the same principle; maintenance by no means should bear the brunt of the changes.
I have said many times that AA employees DO NOT need to take more and more paycuts in order to save the company but you do have to come up with workrules that are more productive than anything else in the network carrier industry, not only because AA has to be able to fight to win back the business and markets it has lost but because the damage to AA is great.
.
And yes you need to get new leadership; the fact that AA mgmt has hung around for 8 years after their failed turnaround plan is just plain criminal.
.
The choice is whether you want to continue to sit back and watch AA be beaten to pulp by its competitors because AA is too damaged to fight back or whether you want to do what is necessary to return AA to a position where it can fight back and save not only the company but also your own jobs and the futures of your families.
.
I hope like all get out that someone will decide this is worth fighting for.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

traveler/management,

"But my question to you (collectively) is what are you going to do to turn the ship around? And, when AA is overtaken by better run and more nimble competitors, are you all just going to chalk up the past how many years of your life to a bad experience, move onto what is next in your life, and live with the wounds that you have suffered?"

My question to YOU is:

In YOUR non-AMT, alias using position WHAT should AMTs do to "turn the ship around"? You are afraid to say it but you are implying concessions. THAT is not going to happen. So for comical relief spew forth your nonsensical advice for people who TRIED to "turn the ship around" but only to find our efforts go directly into the pockets of those steering the ship.

Come on, tell me HOW I can do my part to "turn the ship around"! Do you suggest I inspect/repair aircraft differently? What EXACTLY is your magic bullet for missing the iceberg management has us on a collision course with?

 

[sixty/4]

I am in no way letting mgmt off the hook... they have alot to be held accountable for.
.
But my question to you (collectively) is what are you going to do to turn the ship around? And, when AA is overtaken by better run and more nimble competitors, are you all just going to chalk up the past how many years of your life to a bad experience, move onto what is next in your life, and live with the wounds that you have suffered?
.
How about instead of telling us how you are going to burn the company down to make sure they get no more concessions out of you that you hire labor leaders who will take the initiative to develop THEIR OWN turnaround plan for AA, including having labor LEGALLY TAKE control of the company. Convince Wall Street that mgmt's course of action is unsustainable and that you not only care about your jobs but you care about the future of your company - and that you aren't going to sit back and accept failure as the culmination of 8 years of concessions that have come to nothing.
.
How about you march - thousands of you - enough to catch the attention of the national media - on Wall Street, demanding that AMR managment be replaced by someone that understands the airline industry.
Who knows whether Bob Crandall would take the job or not - but I bet you he would sit down and tell you what needs to be done to turn the company around and probably could tell you the names of some people who he thinks could get the job done.
.
And then set your own expectations for what has to be done. The turnaround is not going to be pretty - or easy. But continuing to think that you and other AA people will return to what you once knew is simply unrealistic and I can assure you that you will hold onto those expectations while the last vestiges of AA sink below the surface. Holding on to expectations about doing all maintenance in-house won't cut it when the evidence is overwhelming that outsourced maintenance is not only necessary in order to be cost competitive with the rest of the industry, but despite what you want to believe, it is also just as safe as AA's own in-house maintenance. There are equally significant changes that have to take place with other workgroups based on the same principle; maintenance by no means should bear the brunt of the changes.
I have said many times that AA employees DO NOT need to take more and more paycuts in order to save the company but you do have to come up with workrules that are more productive than anything else in the network carrier industry, not only because AA has to be able to fight to win back the business and markets it has lost but because the damage to AA is great.
.
And yes you need to get new leadership; the fact that AA mgmt has hung around for 8 years after their failed turnaround plan is just plain criminal.
.
The choice is whether you want to continue to sit back and watch AA be beaten to pulp by its competitors because AA is too damaged to fight back or whether you want to do what is necessary to return AA to a position where it can fight back and save not only the company but also your own jobs and the futures of your families.
.
I hope like all get out that someone will decide this is worth fighting for.

Ok WT , last time I am going to explain this.
The quality of mro's work is less than AA's, I have seen it first hand and so has other amt's, you havnt, because your not an amt. You dont know what your talking about. Just because airplanes are not falling out of the sky does not mean their safe.
For AA to outsource their maintenance they are going to have to give up on quality and turn time.
AA maintenance package is more intence than other carriers , if they took their maintenance to a mro the cost would come up and so would the turn times, thats why they havnt done it. We do quality and speed.