Can anyone defend the IAM crossing the mechanic's picket line?

[insp89]

NMB will screw your wish by including utes and stockies in class and craft....

Hey dell, Is this fact, or is this your wish ?

 

[delldude]

Hey dell, Is this fact, or is this your wish ?

past precedence at UA and NWA with AMFA.

both places NMB kept utes and stores combined with M&R as it should.

BTW whens the big announcement about the cards??

been waiting about what,a week??

 

[Bob Owens]

I absolutely do.
I agree, though I would "argue" that any change at the top can only be sparked by a desire for change at the local level.

I see plenty of desire, I'm sure you do too. The problem is that most workers dont really feel that they can make change, and to a certain extent they are right.

Like you, I think the IBT represents the best vehicle for unifying (sp?) the industry. Moving from the AFL-CIO into the Change to Win coalition was-in my opinion- a very smart move.

Well the "change to Win coalition has yet to prove themselves. Are they really committed to change that will benifit the workers or was it a business deal to save money? I've tried contacting the IBT about organizing AA and so far they have been unreceptive.

When will all this happen? I don't know. Frankly, I would have thought people would have had enough a long time ago

I think they have, they are in a state of despair.

.

For me this mentality of resignation and (to a lesser extent) apathy is the most frustrating of all. It's sad that the fact that everyone complains but very few get involved is now an accepted truth.

What exactly do you want the members to get involved in? Technically every member gives at least two hours a month to the union. Union officers, who are getting paid to conduct meetings complain about the lack of attendance but I know from experience that a lot of these same officials who complain about the members want to be compensated for every minute of their time.

The fact is that most union meetings are a waste of time, especially if all the members are from the same company. These guys would go and see the same people that they work with everyday. I feel that union meetings should be done electronically, like this BB. Then members can discuss issues easily and share them with people from other shifts, stations shops etc.

It'd be one thing if times were good, but obviously thse are not those times. If any progress is to be made, changing this collective mindset is a critical first step.

The first step is to start making the move to get us into one union.

I'm not sure how it is in larger locals like NYC, but as an example in my old station we had membership from NWA, UAL and WN. Total active membership was roughly 350 people. Outside of those of us that were officers, UA *maybe* had 3-5 other members attend meetings, we (NW) had 1-2 if we were lucky, and WN never had anyone show up outside of their grievance committee man.

Just because someone doesnt attend it doesnt mean they dont care. When I was an officer coworkers who did not go to meetings would often ask what was going on. I really feel that the use of technology could enable more people to take an active part in their union, but in reality most leaders really dont want that. A meeting with 2 or three people is a lot easier to handle and the lack of attendence gives them a handy excuse for doing nothing.

 

[pitguy]

dude,
Why do you care so much if the IAM stays? I mean you have the lowest wages in the industry and the IAM isn't going to get them raised for you? It looks to me like Frank is just using you and he will... never... ever... let you in the inner circle.

 

[insp89]

past precedence at UA and NWA with AMFA.

both places NMB kept utes and stores combined with M&R as it should.

BTW whens the big announcement about the cards??

been waiting about what,a week??

dell, I don't know any more than you about the card count.

Just waiting like everyone else.


Do you actually think it's right that the NMB allow all the utility to vote on this ? When it is clear that the company has no intentions on bringing back Utility to the levels that they once were?

I have no problem whatsoever having the utility that are presently employed by the company to vote. [rightfully so],

I think the NMB should give a lot of thought and even discuss this with the company what their plans are for future rehiring of the mechanics, stock clerks and utility personell that presently are not employed with this company.

 

[NeedForSpeed]

NMB will screw your wish by including utes and stockies in class and craft....

Have to disagree with ya here, Dell.... Not your particular point that you post...Your probably right, unfortunately. (THE NMB will rule).. But rather the fact that AMT's SHOULD MOST DEFINATELY be separated from utes, and the stock clerks. Not dispariging anyone on these threads, but there IS a huge difference between the 3 classes and the work that is performed, not to mention the RESPONSIBILITY factor.......HELLO?????

This industry has been destroyed enough. Just look at these threads as examples. 2 airlines merging, 2 particular groups fighting with each other as to who is going to "represent" them. Forget about "scope"...."stations"..."in-house"..."outsource"...BLAH......BLAH.....BLAH.......!You guys are killing YOURSELVES....constantly arguing about which union this, which union that!!! The point I am trying to make, you want a union.....cool!!!....make it a MECHANIC Union only....

My humble Opine, of course.

 

[delldude]

(THE NMB will rule).. But rather the fact that AMT's SHOULD MOST DEFINATELY be separated from utes, and the stock clerks. Not dispariging anyone on these threads, but ????

This industry has been destroyed enough. Just look at these threads as examples. 2 airlines merging, 2 particular groups fighting with each other as to who is going to "represent" them. Forget about "scope"...."stations"..."in-house"..."outsource"... The point I am trying to make, you want a union.....cool!!!....make it a MECHANIC Union only....

My humble Opine, of course.

my friend....you have tripped the wire.....let me wipe my fingers before i get started....

Have to disagree with ya here, Dell.... Not your particular point that you post...Your probably right, unfortunately.

I'm probably right ....unfortunatly....how unfortunate....

there IS a huge difference between the 3 classes and the work that is performed, not to mention the RESPONSIBILITY factor.......HELLO?

I was fortunate enough in august of 1998 to start my lead mechanic time in department 435 known in PIT as hangar two....
during this time frame U was on a hiring binge.....during this time there were many who filed to upgrade from the utility or stores position to a mechanic position....most of these people already held an airframe and powerplant license like you and I and were only awaiting their time to get a bid...to use their license,just like you and I.
They did what they had to to "get in".....not quite lucky enough as you and I to get into the hangar as a mechanic...but they got in...they bided their time.....

These people not only came into the hangar environment well prepared,but they were up and running already with exposure to the many problems on aircraft they experienced working aside line mechanics on a daily basis..this attribute helped me immensely....
I must say for the most part the people who upgraded from utility and stores were some the best mechanics I had the priveledge and I mean priveledge of working with....

there IS a huge difference between the 3 classes and the work that is performed, not to mention the RESPONSIBILITY factor.......HELLO?

I have to respectfully disagree here sir.....and I will defend what I said until the end......

this is why after some forty years under the IAM agreement that Mechanic and Related are sacrosanct......

good nite Irene.....

 

[smorzando]

Have to disagree with ya here, Dell.... Not your particular point that you post...Your probably right, unfortunately. (THE NMB will rule).. But rather the fact that AMT's SHOULD MOST DEFINATELY be separated from utes, and the stock clerks. Not dispariging anyone on these threads, but there IS a huge difference between the 3 classes and the work that is performed, not to mention the RESPONSIBILITY factor.......HELLO?????

This industry has been destroyed enough. Just look at these threads as examples. 2 airlines merging, 2 particular groups fighting with each other as to who is going to "represent" them. Forget about "scope"...."stations"..."in-house"..."outsource"...BLAH......BLAH.....BLAH.......!You guys are killing YOURSELVES....constantly arguing about which union this, which union that!!! The point I am trying to make, you want a union.....cool!!!....make it a MECHANIC Union only....

My humble Opine, of course.

Mental Midget Alert

 

[PITbull]

So did ALPA, PFAA and every other union at NWA.

Doesn't make it ok. No one should be crossing that picket line.

 

[AP Tech]

Thank you PITbull, short sweet and to the point!!! I agree with you 100% Just because one group does wrong does not make it right!!!

 

[delldude]

dell, I don't know any more than you about the card count.

Just waiting like everyone else.
Do you actually think it's right that the NMB allow all the utility to vote on this ? When it is clear that the company has no intentions on bringing back Utility to the levels that they once were?

I have no problem whatsoever having the utility that are presently employed by the company to vote. [rightfully so],

I think the NMB should give a lot of thought and even discuss this with the company what their plans are for future rehiring of the mechanics, stock clerks and utility personell that presently are not employed with this company.

its been an integral part of the union for some forty odd years....many are AMT qualified and when the majority of senior mechs at U retire,they will be able to come back.how would you feel if you were in this situation??
remember you have recall rights...many are working lesser paying jobs right now awaiting the opportunity....

 

[insp89]

its been an integral part of the union for some forty odd years....many are AMT qualified and when the majority of senior mechs at U retire,they will be able to come back.how would you feel if you were in this situation??
remember you have recall rights...many are working lesser paying jobs right now awaiting the opportunity....

dell, Can you put a number on what you mean by "many" ?
During my years here at Usairways, I can count the number of utility that held an A&P license,[and waiting for a mechanic's job to open up], on one hand.

Even the ones that have A&P's, that were employed here before the company furloughed them, [and replaced them with contract utility workers], obviously do not have the seniority to hold a mechanic's job.

Even if the company decided to rehire mechanics, These guys would not have the seniority for those positions, beacuse if they did, they would of been in mechanic's job before they were furloughed as a utility..

Bottom Line, People that no longer are on the property and have a slim to none chance of ever returning, should not have a vote in this matter.

 

[700UW]

Go look at the seniority list, you will see at least a hundred mechs that have utility time, many of them are very senior.

There was an A&P school at CLT where many utility got their tickets back in the early 90's.

 

[insp89]

Go look at the seniority list, you will see at least a hundred mechs that have utility time, many of them are very senior.

There was an A&P school at CLT where many utility got their tickets back in the early 90's.

700, Are these mechanic's presently employed with this company ?

 

[700UW]

Many of them are, in DCA and PHL. Go look at the seniority list, a lot of very senior mechs have utility time.