Will Nw Pilots Honor Picket Lines, Or Cross?

[Ken MacTiernan]

I think that NWA is underestimating the support their AMTs will receive in the event of a strike. There will be scabs and those who will go to work because they care about only themselves.

I spoke to a NWA Captain this morning in SAN and asked him if he would honor a strike picket line. I was not in uniform because I was walking to clock out. He said he would not honor a strike picket line because, and I quote, "This is a new time and era." IHe said that the pilots already gave so it is time for the AMTs. I told him that NWA will just come back to them again, and again, and again. He agreed!

I honestly feel that this Captain is the minority because not everyone can be that dense. I know that SAN AA AMTs as well as AWA AMTs will be walking alongside our fellow NWA AMTs. The time is here and now to fight. Where will you be?

 

[Bagbelt]

I don't believe the pilots have ever honored anyones picket line except at eastern. I wish you the best of luck but don't expect any formal help. The feds aren't going to let anyone do anything anyway.

 

[Dea Certe]

I wonder how many former EAL employees thought it was a "new day and era" until it was too late to do anything about it? Every airline employee needs to stand up *now*! CEO's and their buddies on the various boards of directors are lining their pockets, with 'consultant" fees that somehow just never really seem to accomplish much other than the lightening of employees paychecks.

The only control we as labor have at this point, it the withholding of that labor, through a legal strike. We cannot give up our integrity as easily as we have given up our benefits and pay. Once you lose your integrity, you've lost your self-worth. I, for one, could never cross a legal picket line.

I'd rather flip burgers and be able to look at myself, secure in the knowlege I am doing honest labor. At the rate things are going, airline wages will rival fast-food wages sooner than one can realize.

Take a stand now, or work behind one!

Dea

 

[eolesen]

It is shameful that a union would have language in their CBA that would prevent them from supporting union members on strike. AMFA language does not prevent them from supporting striking union members. AMFA makes it clear they will not cross a picket line.

[post="283724"][/post]​

It might be shameful, but every contract I've read that has a no-strike clause also has no-lockout language within the same article. In some ways, lockouts are more damaging than a strike is, since management typically has deeper pockets to put contingency plans in place as NWA has already indicated.

 

[Dea Certe]

If NWA does have deeper pockets, why is it crying poor-mouth? Why can't it afford to give a few crumbs to the employees who do the work? I'm not trying to be confrontational here, I just don't understand why NWA would rather endure a strike and all the bad press that goes with it instead of making nice with its workers.

Dea

 

[Hackman]

It might be shameful, but every contract I've read that has a no-strike clause also has no-lockout language within the same article. In some ways, lockouts are more damaging than a strike is, since management typically has deeper pockets to put contingency plans in place as NWA has already indicated.

[post="283800"][/post]​

NWA might have a plan to replace several thousand AMT's with 500 scabs and managers that have not touched an aircraft in 20 years, but I just don't think it will be quite enough. In addition to the "rumor" that many of the scabs NWA has lured with lies and pots of gold can't pass drug tests or the FAA 10 year backround check.

You management types seem to have lots of plans, too bad most of them don't work...

PS, On your question of how many NWA AMT's voted to strike, I guess you'll see when they walk.

 

[Stratocruiser]

PS, On your question of how many NWA AMT's voted to strike, I guess you'll see when they walk.

[post="283822"][/post]​

That's a fairly significant statistic to leave out. The fact that it (the percentage of the membership that voted on the strike) was omitted from AMFA’s press release leaves me to question how much support the union has in its own ranks, not to mention what it can expect from other NWA employees. If 1,000 AMTs cast ballots and 924 voted “yes,â€￾ you’d get your 92.4%, but that also means that 72 said “noâ€￾ and 3,500 or so didn’t vote at all; hardly a rousing show of support in my humble opinion.

 

[Hackman]

That's a fairly significant statistic to leave out. The fact that it (the percentage of the membership that voted on the strike) was omitted from AMFA’s press release leaves me to question how much support the union has in its own ranks, not to mention what it can expect from other NWA employees. If 1,000 AMTs cast ballots and 924 voted “yes,â€￾ you’d get your 92.4%, but that also means that 72 said “noâ€￾ and 3,500 or so didn’t vote at all; hardly a rousing show of support in my humble opinion.

[post="283829"][/post]​

Its also a large speculation on how much support with the baseless numbers you throw out to arrive at your opinion. I surmise NWA management and the company man bootlickers here on this BB would love to know this information, and I'm pleased AMFA didn't release the numbers. Go fish.

I'll base my theory on the last time AMFA went up against the same type of NWA management nastiness at the PEB in 2000. The NWA mechanics were rolling toolboxes out the door, and I'd venture to say it was by far the major majority.

Like I said, 500 flunkie scabs and inept NWA managers trying to service the NWA fleet just won't get the job done.

Not to mention the support they will be getting from other labor groups.

I wouldn't want to fight this wounded dog, no thanks. You can only piss on people for so long before they fight, to the death in some cases. NWA management has gone way too far this time.

Mr. frank lorenso found this out first hand with Eastern.

I guess we'll see if the NWA management bastards want to take that chance. :angry:

I say weld the doors shut.

 

[Stratocruiser]

Not to mention the support they will be getting from other labor groups.

[post="284017"][/post]​

Since you guys keep harping on this, let’s look at the “scoreboard.â€￾

Pilots: have way too much to lose if NWA files for Chapter 11, so I wouldn’t count on their support

IAM: as has been mentioned previously, they have long memories about how NWA’s AMTs basically told them to pound sand. Maybe some sporadic support here and there, but not much more than that

Flight Attendants: a little harder to tell, particularly since their represented by a new union with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove. However, I believe NWA has contingency plans in place for that work group, too

The bottom line is, if AMFA walks out, they will most likely be on their own. The unemployment line will be a pretty lonely place.

 

[Borescope]

None of the other groups are going to honor the picket lines. Call them what you want. It ain't gonna happen .

The company has wanted to outsource mx work and with these guys walking the picket line they will get their wish. This is a no brainer for the company. What an easy way to trim the ranks, let them walk. There will be no job to come back to. This management was around when it happen to EA and they learned big lessons from Lorenzo. You walk, you play right into the hand of management. They probably have already lobbied folks in DC to let it happen.

When you make mine, add extra pickles

 

[nwa400]

Huuummm? Eastern or American? Huuummm? What model should I follow? Do I wish to be in the unemployment line or working for less money? I spoke to an AA MD-80 crew not long ago and asked them a question. Would you do it all over again if you were in the same situation? They both said, "Duh? Look where we are and look where the rest of the industry is right now! Many will be without jobs and we will pick up their routes and grow and become profitable (which they already have) and retire while some work at Home Depot." I hear talk of Pilots only thinking of themselves and Full Pay To The Last Day, well what about the other employees and their families and the retired mechanics and your children? This industry is harsh but it is much more harsh on the street eating beans and hoping to pay for your kids school supplies. I have lived it and know that we may think we can make 50k a year on the outside but how long has it been since most of you looked for a job? Talking about thinking of others............Look long term and look at the lives that will be torn apart when an airline goes under that employees 60k people and all thier families. Good luck to everyone......I continue to HOPE! P.S. IT is easy to say "go ahead and strike, we are with you here at AA or AWA or any other airline." NWA people, does it profit an employee from another airline to say, "go ahead and stike, we are with you?" Some are like vultures standing by rooting on the lion waiting to feed their families on the remains of your airplanes and routes. Be careful be very very careful what we wish for.

 

[Saturdaynite]

this is the problem with union fragmentation. once the afl-cio is no longer the head it makes it difficult to legally justify any sympathetic actions. you brought it on youselves w/amfa. i have heard of the distaste for the afl-cio but just wait and see how long you last w/o it. did not see it coming? why not? easy pickings now.

[post="283385"][/post]​

MWA,

How would staying with afl-cio, have changed the fact that the Pilots can not honor the picket line ?
BTW, Have you heard ? SEIU & Teamsters dumped the AFL-CIO too........ It was in USA Today ( yesterday)
SN

 

[Saturdaynite]

Every airline employee needs to stand up *now*! CEO's and their buddies on the various boards of directors are lining their pockets, with 'consultant" fees that somehow just never really seem to accomplish much other than the lightening of employees paychecks.


DEA,
You are so correct...
Richard Anderson is on the dole as a "Consultant" $60,000 per MONTH !!!! You wonder when this brilliant mind can find the time to give that kind of moneys worth, with a full time position at United Health care ! And , pray tell, What exactly
is he doing ????

Then there is Robyn Frick. Retired a month ago as Head of the Training Dept....
Only to be back as a "Consultant" to train SCABS !!!!!!!

SN

 

[Saturdaynite]

NWA might have a plan to replace several thousand AMT's with 500 scabs and managers that have not touched an aircraft in 20 years, but I just don't think it will be quite enough. In addition to the "rumor" that many of the scabs NWA has lured with lies and pots of gold can't pass drug tests or the FAA 10 year backround check.

You management types seem to have lots of plans, too bad most of them don't work...

PS, On your question of how many NWA AMT's voted to strike, I guess you'll see when they walk.

[post="283822"][/post]​

Hack,

I also heard from a Pilot yesterday, that NWA has been taking Gate Agents from "mecca" and flying them to ( I forget exactly) but it was some remote hicktown, ( FAR ?) and doing one day training to teach them how to use the "tugs".........

SN

 

[aafsc]

None of the other groups are going to honor the picket lines. Call them what you want. It ain't gonna happen .

The company has wanted to outsource mx work and with these guys walking the picket line they will get their wish. This is a no brainer for the company. What an easy way to trim the ranks, let them walk. There will be no job to come back to. This management was around when it happen to EA and they learned big lessons from Lorenzo. You walk, you play right into the hand of management. They probably have already lobbied folks in DC to let it happen.

When you make mine, add extra pickles

[post="284066"][/post]​

I pretty much agree but I think the flight attendants may honor the AMFA picket line (if their contract allows it) because the PFAA, like AMFA, has/had it's "roots" in Laconia.

I don't think the NW pilots will honor an AMFA picket line simply because they have too much to lose. They saw what the UA and US pilots lost in bankruptcy; especially the pensions. They will do everything they can to prevent them from being terminated and turned over to the PBGC. And the pilots honoring an AMFA picket line would devistate NW.

As for the IAM and ramp service, I don't think that they will honor an AMFA picket line. Why? Because the IAM is still angry about losing the AMT's union dues to AMFA. They hate AMFA. As far as the NW ramp service people, I would not try to speak for them but I am pretty sure they remember the NW AMTs comments about ramp being grossly overpaid because they ride the AMT's coattails. Although the NW ramp people may support the NW AMTs goals, I doubt they would be willing to make monetary (and possible job) sacrafices for another group that has historically thought very little of them. AMFA has always rebuked the concept of industrial unionism and has said that because of their skills they can go it alone. We shall soon see in about 20 something days whether this is true or not.

From my experience at EAL, I think NW CAN fly through an AMFA strike. Why? Because at EAL they did not farm out heavy maintanence and had to hire scabs to work in heavy overhaul in addition to the line, as to where NW has already farmed out a good chunk of its heavy overhaul, thus it is already staffed. Once the EAL-ALPA president got nervous and made a statement about how the EAL pilots should return to work, many pilots went back in and this is when EAL was able to get MANY more planes in the air. EAL's maintanence wasn't pretty during the strike, but it was good enough to let the airline fly for about 2 years after the IAM and others walked out.