Because I am (and have been for a while) at the top of the scale. I also enjoy the benefits and flexibility (CSs). Sometimes I work 3 days a week with 4 hours overtime each day; work 3 days for a total of 36 hours, get paid for 42 then get 4 days off by CSing off 2 days next to my days off and then jump on a plane and go skiing or diving, not bad. My seniority allows me to stay out of the bellies and weather. I could easily get a 9 to 5 job with weekends off and make more than I do at AA, but there would be no CSs. But if the compensation declines further, I would be compelled to trade the flexibility for greater compensation.<_<----- Simple Question aa? If as you've stated, "people can make more money working a non phyysical job indoors", why haven't you joined them?
Bottom Line
- Thread starter Bob Owens
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #197
When you factor in inflation the post Lorenzo payrates were superior to what you have today at AA.
Back in the early eighties the industry was a great place to work. Two decades of decline have brought you to below where Continental went with their radical plans. Its gotten so bad that all some carriers had to do was threaten BK and they got more than Lorenzo did.
Mechanics did get a windfall due to AMFAs NWA contract, thats why mechanics raises were much bigger than yours were in 2001, and mechanics pre-inflation adjusted wages(NOT INCLUDING BENIFITS) unlike yours, are still higher than they were in 2000.
The mechs at NWA under AMFA paid a heavy price but the fact is that their actions benifited every mechanic in the industry, thats why they were targeted. The sad fact is that people are such cowards they fail to see what that was all about. AMFA had to be crushed because they were raising the expectations of mechanics which is the exact opposite of what the industry and government want. Theyt want us all to be frightened wimps willing to scramble for whatever crumbs they choose to leave behind. One strong but small union cant win against the combined forces of Capital-Government and corrupt business unionism.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
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You are incorrect in asserting that I wish the "destruction" of another group. Negotiations are simple, there is a pie that is available for division amongst the workers. The Pilots always seem to get theirs but are not in a Bus Drivers Union nor are they a union negotiating for the multiple unskilled work groups. AA Pilots do not seem concerned with the "strength in numbers" industrial union theory. AA Pilots do not seem to need the AFL-CIO community of labor for leverage. The F/A have demonstrated their resolve in the past using withholding of labor to get their point across. They seem to fair pretty well also without the "community of labor" AFL-CIO. The only way to have "verifiable" facts is to be a witness to negotiations and have the facts present at AA during those negotiations.
I do know that AMT's pay an inflated premium for LTD Insurance because the liability associated with the baggage handler postion and the number from that work group collecting LTD. I no longer pay those inflated premiums and have my own personal insurance that is cheaper than the TWU ramp friendly LTD.
You have nothing more than facts from airlines represented by industrial unions and therefore your facts likely favor my position more than yours. Until there is some history of AMT's being in a Craft Union seperated from the unskilled then yes I have a theory, but your facts are nothing more than proof that the skilled have suffered along with the unskilled with industrial unions on the property or non-union. You have no facts that are detrimental to the theory that AMT's would be far better off in their own union without the unskilled worker taking time and resources from issues unassociated with the profession.
I have no idea what an agent or a ramper should make.
Until you and I are both witnesses to the secret negotiations that take place with industrial unions on the property there is really not any avialable "verifiable" facts to assertain correctness or falsehoods of our respective theories.
All I know is that the AMFA idea of ALL AMT's being in one union has not even been tried yet so to assert that this theory or philosophy has failed is nothing more than industrial union rhetoric. IF the idea has NEVER been tried, then there are not any "verifiable facts" to prove it wouldn't work better than the company union appointed leadership of industrial unions.
Per your posted facts, every AMT group represented by industrial unions and grouped together with the unskilled has not only suffered 20+ years of concessions and givebacks they are likely to suffer more in the future. My verifiable facts are the simple history of industrial unionism failures for the AMT profession, and I would like to try something different. I appreciate you posting the historical failures of industrial union or non-union status within this industry. All this has done is increase my desire to try something different. And the only viable solution being presented is ALL AMT's into one UNION. Doesn't have to be AMFA, but it must be a democratic union that doesn't appoint company union leaders that are never subjected to a membership ballot.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #200
You mean like a mechanic working a B check in Guatemala and one working a C-check in Tulsa?
No ,not Guatemala ,I mean an underpaid primadona in NY.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #202
Whats wrong? You have to resort to childish namecalling because I called on your obvious setup question?
Well here is your answer, the difference between all these examples, Tulsa, Guatemala and NY is location. A mechanic in NY should expect to earn a wage that is comensurate for the skills he offers where it is offered. Location makes a big difference in pricing of many things-including labor. If you feel that location is irrelevant then you should be willing to work for the same wage as someone in Guatemala, after all if a tire change in NY is worth the same as one in Tulsa then the same holds true for Guatemala. I will glady accept the wage of a line mechanic in London or Germany.
Obvious setup hah?
You might believe that you should be paid a location wage, but the company prefers you get a market wage.
What are the market wages these days for line and periodic checks in NY?
Location hah?
I got news for you guys.
The only reason mechanics like you are underpaid (for their location that is,right?) is none other than yourselves.
You and only you.
Stop blaming TWU, Tulsa, Guatemala, the White House, Congress and your dog.
The line mechanics that keep coming to work for those same low wages are to blame.
Years ago I faced the same problem.
Keep going to work for practically poverty wages in the east, quit and go work another job in NY, or move. I chose to move.
If you guys expect to get anything more, YOU must do something about it.
If you think that guys in Tulsa, Guatemala, England or Germany will get this done for you, well frankly you are idiots.
Most of you are in your forties and fifties for Christ sake, what kind of dream world are you in?
As long as there is a pool of workers willing to do your work for less you don’t have a chance of achieving your goals.
I was not willing to stay out east and did not want to quit, so guess what?
I am not suggesting you move or quit. Maybe you have another solution, I don’t.
Even if by some incredible miracle overhaul supported you, and went on strike, their impact to operations will be minimal for weeks.
It’s you, the line that has to walk, regardless of what overhaul does.
You think you need TWU’s approval for that?
Bull I say, it’s all inside you.
And since practically none of you can secure a working permit in Guatemala, Germany or England its either Tulsa , another “Location†or some really deep soul searching for you guys.
In the mean time instead of Germany wages you will get American wages.
And this my friend is your location as far as this industry is concerned.
You might believe that you should be paid a location wage, but the company prefers you get a market wage.
What are the market wages these days for line and periodic checks in NY?
Location hah?
I got news for you guys.
The only reason mechanics like you are underpaid (for their location that is,right?) is none other than yourselves.
You and only you.
Stop blaming TWU, Tulsa, Guatemala, the White House, Congress and your dog.
The line mechanics that keep coming to work for those same low wages are to blame.
Years ago I faced the same problem.
Keep going to work for practically poverty wages in the east, quit and go work another job in NY, or move. I chose to move.
If you guys expect to get anything more, YOU must do something about it.
If you think that guys in Tulsa, Guatemala, England or Germany will get this done for you, well frankly you are idiots.
Most of you are in your forties and fifties for Christ sake, what kind of dream world are you in?
As long as there is a pool of workers willing to do your work for less you don’t have a chance of achieving your goals.
I was not willing to stay out east and did not want to quit, so guess what?
I am not suggesting you move or quit. Maybe you have another solution, I don’t.
Even if by some incredible miracle overhaul supported you, and went on strike, their impact to operations will be minimal for weeks.
It’s you, the line that has to walk, regardless of what overhaul does.
You think you need TWU’s approval for that?
Bull I say, it’s all inside you.
And since practically none of you can secure a working permit in Guatemala, Germany or England its either Tulsa , another “Location†or some really deep soul searching for you guys.
In the mean time instead of Germany wages you will get American wages.
And this my friend is your location as far as this industry is concerned.
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
- Banned
- #204
<_< ----- You still haven't answeered my question! What are you getting from EAL for a retirement? A lump some of money maybe? A check from the PBGC maybe? What? :unsure:
MCI,
He will not be able to answer your question. He can not run TWA people down by answering it, so he will just skip it.
T
The Goose
Guest
As I recall, you're a crew chief/welder, Mr. Informer.
Isn't that what amfa considers "unskilled", that is, anyone not working directly on aircraft or in the machine trades?
I get (got) nothing from EAL due to the fact that I was not vested. However, those EAL people who are receiving checks from the PBGC seem to be receiving the same amounts as similarly situated TWAers.
I have no problem answering his question; but I can't be on this board all the time.
OUCH! Does informer posses airframe and/or power plant certificate(s)?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
This is nothing more than a TWU stooge once again believing what they told him down on Pine Street.
Try getting outside your 46 mile comfort radius and seek the truth.
