Bottom Line

I didn't quit, I am still here. Go ahead and post more of your mind shattering opinions.

It is not the gloating that is getting attention, it is the selfish anti-union rhetoric that is raising eyebrows as best I can tell.

No doubt raptor is a future Scab in the making. he stays in the shadows like a vulture riding the coatails of those who do the work to bring down the prey and settles for the scraps.....Pathetic!
 
TWA/IAM History of concessions is very similar to AA/TWU. TWU has negotiated concessions at AA for 20+ years. So what is your reason for accepting those?

Why don't we demand parity for Fleet Service Clerks on the next contract and stop having mechanics subsidize the overpaid unskilled?
Are the mechanics also subsidizing the NON-UNION AA agents who make more than fleet service? What about the F/A's who make about the same? Why don't you get the UPS aircraft mechanics to leave the IBT and go AMFA? After a little AMFA rhetoric directed at the unskilled, I'm sure that the unskilled at UPS will no longer be willing to "subsidize" the AMT wages there.

As for concessions, TWA people lost a lot more than AA people. How many pay cuts did they take? Over how many years? How long were they the industry laggard? When did they lose (give up) their pension? 1985? What was the difference in pay between the two groups with similar seniority?
 
<_< -------"Truthful"? Man your delusional!---- You need help! What, are you still looking for that school bus full of exTWA people coming down I95 to take your job? I'm serious aa! Your rantings are classic Paranoia! I believe our AA insurance covers cases like yours!! You'll fined it under treatment for "Mental Health"!
Don't have to worry about a "TWA school bus" coming here anytime soon. MIA is a 4/10/01 city and the arbitrator's ruling is eternal.
 
They agreed to drop the LPP provisions of their contracts when TWA threatened to file an 1113 motion in bankruptcy court to void their contracts altogether.And for the record it was the IAM that requested binding arbitration, the TWU was essentially silent on how the actual integration would take place.
The TWU could have refused binding arbitration altogether and have done what the APFA did. Evidently they agreed to binding arbitration but took the "staple" position (I remember reading it). The arbitrator did not agree and issued his ruling.
 
The TWU could have refused binding arbitration altogether and have done what the APFA did. Evidently they agreed to binding arbitration but took the "staple" position (I remember reading it). The arbitrator did not agree and issued his ruling.

Little aafsc is still crying. You lost it all at EA boy, at least the TWA people were smart enough not to lose everything like you did. You are just mad because you were so dumb to lose what you had at EAL. Cry boy, cry.
 
Are the mechanics also subsidizing the NON-UNION AA agents who make more than fleet service? What about the F/A's who make about the same? Why don't you get the UPS aircraft mechanics to leave the IBT and go AMFA? After a little AMFA rhetoric directed at the unskilled, I'm sure that the unskilled at UPS will no longer be willing to "subsidize" the AMT wages there.

As for concessions, TWA people lost a lot more than AA people. How many pay cuts did they take? Over how many years? How long were they the industry laggard? When did they lose (give up) their pension? 1985? What was the difference in pay between the two groups with similar seniority?
<_< ----- Another one of your misconceptions! TWA never "lost (give up) their pension"! It was frozen. And supplemented with a "B" plan. There is a difference! But let's hope the TWU doesn't go down that path! And yes aa American's pension is, for the time being, much better than TWA's!
 
Don't have to worry about a "TWA school bus" coming here anytime soon. MIA is a 4/10/01 city and the arbitrator's ruling is eternal.
<_< ------ That's right aa! You keep telling yourself that and everything will be O.K.!!!! :bleh:
 
Little aafsc is still crying. You lost it all at EA boy, at least the TWA people were smart enough not to lose everything like you did. You are just mad because you were so dumb to lose what you had at EAL. Cry boy, cry.
twaokc, it that you? Sure seems like your writing style; bitterness and all. EAL people had what YOU never did- courage. EAL people were able to have Lorenzo banned from the industry for all time. Metaphorically speaking, we "severed his manhood" as opposed to TWA people "massaging Ichan's" while he lined his pockets with your concessions. I would never have worked for those TWA trash rates. With Lorenzo, EAL people were going to lose it all anyway; so do you go out on your feet (EA people) or on your knees (TWA people)? The TWA people cowardly agreed to continuous concessions in the hopes that a transaction with another airline would occur; where afterwards, they would reap the harvest of much higher wages, pensions, etc. and then demand to be rewarded DOH seniority (at the total expense of others) for their cowardice at TWA. Only problem is, after all those concessions, they did not get DOH which resulted in 75% being put on the street. 100% of EAL people on the street with their heads held high; 75% of TWA on the street after constant capitulation; who really lost more? And which group has cried more?
 
<_< ----- Another one of your misconceptions! TWA never "lost (give up) their pension"! It was frozen. And supplemented with a "B" plan. There is a difference! But let's hope the TWU doesn't go down that path! And yes aa American's pension is, for the time being, much better than TWA's!
The TWA pensions were initially frozen and then subsequently terminated. The terminated TWA pensions were turned over to the PBGC which cost that quasi governmental entity approximately $700 million. There is a reason why those monthly benefit payments are so small.
 
twaokc, it that you? Sure seems like your writing style; bitterness and all.

It really doesn't matter. SWdriver is just another troll. He tries to compensate for his inadequacies by writing on bathroom walls, calling in to night time talk shows and posting here. Unfortunately, he is not compensating for his inadequacies, but is advertising them.

Poor frustrated, inadequate person.
 
<_< ------ aa give it a rest! Your ranting again! We had a choice, Lorenzo, or Icahn. We chose Icahn. Granted, not much of a choice. We ended up with a lump sum of money, and a check from the PBGC every month. That don't sound like a "terminated pension" to me! You can call it anything you want! The money all spends the same! What are you getting from EAL? :huh: As for you not working for TWA, they probably woundn't have you! And the decision to stay with them wasn't yours to make, so I wouldn't be so quick to criticize those who did!!!
 
Are the mechanics also subsidizing the NON-UNION AA agents who make more than fleet service? What about the F/A's who make about the same? Why don't you get the UPS aircraft mechanics to leave the IBT and go AMFA? After a little AMFA rhetoric directed at the unskilled, I'm sure that the unskilled at UPS will no longer be willing to "subsidize" the AMT wages there.

YES on the agents, no on the skilled F/A's.

UPS Mechanics are not some of the highest paid in the industry, in addition to having a Demcoratic Union where by they ELECT not APPOINT their leaders. With their pay the way it is they are not subsidizing any unskilled like we do at AA. That being said and the fact there leaders are elected, there is surely not as much of need ot desire to oust the IBT at UPS.

You should look at the UPS/IBT facts and differences before making any comparison to our delima with the TWU at AA.
 
YES on the agents, no on the skilled F/A's.

UPS Mechanics are not some of the highest paid in the industry, in addition to having a Demcoratic Union where by they ELECT not APPOINT their leaders. With their pay the way it is they are not subsidizing any unskilled like we do at AA. That being said and the fact there leaders are elected, there is surely not as much of need ot desire to oust the IBT at UPS.

You should look at the UPS/IBT facts and differences before making any comparison to our delima with the TWU at AA.
How can you claim to subsidize the AA agents when they are NON-UNION? AA can cut their pay to minimum wage and take away all benefits tomorrow if they so desired. I find it ironic that you claim to subsidize two groups but not a third. Do you know what starting pay for F/A's at Skybus are? Where is your proof that you subsidize other groups? My position is that you don't and here is my evidence to prove it:

Continental in 1982: Lorenzo used the bankruptcy code to rip up all contracts. When he destroyed the ramp, did the mechanics get a huge windfall? No. They got castrated along with ramp, pilots, and everyone else.

Delta: Ramp and AMTs are non-union; DL can pay either group what ever it wants, or even farm it out. Delta is paying both groups what they feel are MARKET RATES. Those DL AMTs still show up for work every day even though their compensation is inferior to AA AMTs.

Eastern: After the commencement of the EAL strike, Lorenzo farmed out ALL RAMP. However, he hired scab AMTs AS "REAL" EAL EMPLOYEES. Did the farm out of the ramp result in a windfall for the AMTS? NO, they worked for nickels and dimes when compared to the other majors.

USAIR and UNITED: Deep cuts in pay and benefits to ramp after which large numbers rampers left those two companies. They are finding it very difficult to hire new people for these positions. Did the mechanics benefit from this destruction? NO!

My favorite example, Northwest: Went bankrupt and imposed what it feels are market rates on the ramp, agents, F/As. Did it result in a windfall for the AMTs? No, they are the lowest paid. NW could cut ramp and agent pay to $1/hr and the AMTs would not be 1 penny better off.

The third party hack shops: Who do you blame for the piss poor pay there? There is not one ramp rat, not one agent, or F/A on the payroll. Why aren't those vaunted A and Ps making $60/hr there?

The historical evidence is crystal clear- NEVER HAVE THE AMTS BENEFITED FROM THE DESTRUCTION OF ANOTHER GROUP. The man pays you what he feels are market rates. What is keeping your wages from increasing exponentially are the AMTS at the hack shops, the non-union DL AMTs, and the NW, UA, and US AMTs who continue to show up every day for less than AA pay. That is the cause of your problem; not other work groups. Only in YOUR ( and many other's) reprobate mind does this ridiculous theory exist because you have to blame others for your own inadequacies. The fact is AA ramp is at market rates because not many people want to do the job. Of the ones that make it through the training and drug tests, many quit and walk right out after working a fully loaded 757 to South America; people can make more money working a non physical job indoors. I have presented my position and supported it with facts. Why don't you offer verifiable facts to support your position instead of the typical tired disproven rantings of an AMFA supporter. Just curious, how much do you think a ramper, agent should be paid?
 
How can you claim to subsidize the AA agents when they are NON-UNION? AA can cut their pay to minimum wage and take away all benefits tomorrow if they so desired. I find it ironic that you claim to subsidize two groups but not a third. Do you know what starting pay for F/A's at Skybus are? Where is your proof that you subsidize other groups? My position is that you don't and here is my evidence to prove it:

Continental in 1982: Lorenzo used the bankruptcy code to rip up all contracts. When he destroyed the ramp, did the mechanics get a huge windfall? No. They got castrated along with ramp, pilots, and everyone else.

Delta: Ramp and AMTs are non-union; DL can pay either group what ever it wants, or even farm it out. Delta is paying both groups what they feel are MARKET RATES. Those DL AMTs still show up for work every day even though their compensation is inferior to AA AMTs.

Eastern: After the commencement of the EAL strike, Lorenzo farmed out ALL RAMP. However, he hired scab AMTs AS "REAL" EAL EMPLOYEES. Did the farm out of the ramp result in a windfall for the AMTS? NO, they worked for nickels and dimes when compared to the other majors.

USAIR and UNITED: Deep cuts in pay and benefits to ramp after which large numbers rampers left those two companies. They are finding it very difficult to hire new people for these positions. Did the mechanics benefit from this destruction? NO!

My favorite example, Northwest: Went bankrupt and imposed what it feels are market rates on the ramp, agents, F/As. Did it result in a windfall for the AMTs? No, they are the lowest paid. NW could cut ramp and agent pay to $1/hr and the AMTs would not be 1 penny better off.

The third party hack shops: Who do you blame for the piss poor pay there? There is not one ramp rat, not one agent, or F/A on the payroll. Why aren't those vaunted A and Ps making $60/hr there?

The historical evidence is crystal clear- NEVER HAVE THE AMTS BENEFITED FROM THE DESTRUCTION OF ANOTHER GROUP. The man pays you what he feels are market rates. What is keeping your wages from increasing exponentially are the AMTS at the hack shops, the non-union DL AMTs, and the NW, UA, and US AMTs who continue to show up every day for less than AA pay. That is the cause of your problem; not other work groups. Only in YOUR ( and many other's) reprobate mind does this ridiculous theory exist because you have to blame others for your own inadequacies. The fact is AA ramp is at market rates because not many people want to do the job. Of the ones that make it through the training and drug tests, many quit and walk right out after working a fully loaded 757 to South America; people can make more money working a non physical job indoors. I have presented my position and supported it with facts. Why don't you offer verifiable facts to support your position instead of the typical tired disproven rantings of an AMFA supporter. Just curious, how much do you think a ramper, agent should be paid?
<_<----- Simple Question aa? If as you've stated, "people can make more money working a non phyysical job indoors", why haven't you joined them? :shock:
 
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #195
YES on the agents, no on the skilled F/A's.

UPS Mechanics are not some of the highest paid in the industry, in addition to having a Demcoratic Union where by they ELECT not APPOINT their leaders. With their pay the way it is they are not subsidizing any unskilled like we do at AA. That being said and the fact there leaders are elected, there is surely not as much of need ot desire to oust the IBT at UPS.

You should look at the UPS/IBT facts and differences before making any comparison to our delima with the TWU at AA.

Mechanics and Fleet service have seperate contracts. They dont vote on our contracts. We cant blame FS for what we get. Mechanics are NOT subsidizing Fleet Service. If anyone is subsidizing anyone Line Mechs are subsidizing OH. AA line mechanics make much less (nearly $400/week) less than top paid line mechs for the industry while AA overhaul mechs ARE the highest paid in the MRO industry. Stop blaming the so called "unskilled" for what our fellow mechanics in Tulsa and MCI did and do to the profession. Feel free to blame the TWU but not the Fleet Service clerks. Its our fellow (TWU lead) mechanics that screw us over.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top