Bob owens strike ?

[DallasConehead]

is that the best you got?

It's enough and shows your intent.

 

[700UW]

Doesnt matter, you cant strike is the bottom line

 

[eolesen]

Can't strike or get locked out per the 2003 CBA. The CBA is still in effect, and will be until it's re-negotiated or abrogated by the judge and neither has occurred to date.

Carmine, you can't even strike if the contract is abrogated. That's existing case law which was held on appeal.

Realistically, you won't have the ability to legally strike until the first post-bankruptcy Section 6 negotiations run their course, so there's no point even discussing it. That won't be for another four to eight years...

 

[strikeforce]

Carmine, you can't even strike if the contract is abrogated. That's existing case law which was held on appeal.

Realistically, you won't have the ability to legally strike until the first post-bankruptcy Section 6 negotiations run their course, so there's no point even discussing it. That won't be for another four to eight years...

Who said anything about actually calling a strike?????? The rumor mill is spinning out of control and pre-bankruptcy Bob Owens supporters are now flippin like burgers on the only union official that kept everyone informed, and I'm not surprised.

Realistically E, I'm not sticking around and giving this company another 4 to 8 years of concessions......so, while most are busy posting rumors and complaining about Bob Owens.....I'm busy searching for jobs, and not in the aviation industry.

 

[ULM148]

Hasn't the vote NO coalition proven their lack of knowledge about what the situation is at AA!!!! They cost us all money, and now they want to call a strike!!!!! WTF By the way it's illegal to go on strike during BK for the airline industry. How much money is the NY local going to cost it's membership to find that out from an attorney.

Of course if this just a rumor, it should be cleared up ASAP.

bigjets, If you are a union employee you should be disgusted with what you just posted. First off, any educated union brother or sister knows we are not entitled to strike while in Bankruptcy. It is not provided for under the Railway Labor Act. Secondly, your banter about the Vote No Coalition proving their " lack of knowledge about what the situation is at AA" is crap!! AA management runs the company, period! Success or failure belongs to THEM. No one in the "Vote No Coalition" has cost you money. The BOD and it's VP's and Executives have cost you money. Do not for one second blame another work group, union employee or a group of employee's for this 3 ring circus that's currently going on!!

Manny of the "vote no coalition" employee's are very passionate about organized labor and protecting jobs, wages, benefits and ALL of their brother's and sister's. You may see them as a joke, destructive, foolish or whatever, but in my opinion, those are people willing to make a stand. I will stand behind them any day! As far as your statement concerning "their lack of knowledge about what the situation is at AA." Really? Unless you've been a sleep for the last 8 years, we all are completely aware of "what the situation is at AA."

By the way, what is your stand??

 

[Overspeed]

bigjets, If you are a union employee you should be disgusted with what you just posted. First off, any educated union brother or sister knows we are not entitled to strike while in Bankruptcy. It is not provided for under the Railway Labor Act. Secondly, your banter about the Vote No Coalition proving their " lack of knowledge about what the situation is at AA" is crap!! AA management runs the company, period! Success or failure belongs to THEM. No one in the "Vote No Coalition" has cost you money. The BOD and it's VP's and Executives have cost you money. Do not for one second blame another work group, union employee or a group of employee's for this 3 ring circus that's currently going on!!

Manny of the "vote no coalition" employee's are very passionate about organized labor and protecting jobs, wages, benefits and ALL of their brother's and sister's. You may see them as a joke, destructive, foolish or whatever, but in my opinion, those are people willing to make a stand. I will stand behind them any day! As far as your statement concerning "their lack of knowledge about what the situation is at AA." Really? Unless you've been a sleep for the last 8 years, we all are completely aware of "what the situation is at AA."

By the way, what is your stand??

I think he is saying he does not want to "stand" in the line for unemployment.

 

[Birdman]

I think he is saying he does not want to "stand" in the line for unemployment.

Informer voted yes, convinced the TWU would not be able to improve on the t/a. After 18 months since the t/a I now agree, but not because I fear for my job.

 

[bigjets]

bigjets, If you are a union employee you should be disgusted with what you just posted. First off, any educated union brother or sister knows we are not entitled to strike while in Bankruptcy. It is not provided for under the Railway Labor Act. Secondly, your banter about the Vote No Coalition proving their " lack of knowledge about what the situation is at AA" is crap!! AA management runs the company, period! Success or failure belongs to THEM. No one in the "Vote No Coalition" has cost you money. The BOD and it's VP's and Executives have cost you money. Do not for one second blame another work group, union employee or a group of employee's for this 3 ring circus that's currently going on!!

Manny of the "vote no coalition" employee's are very passionate about organized labor and protecting jobs, wages, benefits and ALL of their brother's and sister's. You may see them as a joke, destructive, foolish or whatever, but in my opinion, those are people willing to make a stand. I will stand behind them any day! As far as your statement concerning "their lack of knowledge about what the situation is at AA." Really? Unless you've been a sleep for the last 8 years, we all are completely aware of "what the situation is at AA."

By the way, what is your stand??

I certainly don't blame the vote NO coalition alone, I blame all three unions for not being able to get away from their own rhetoric, I blame management for creating such a bitter work force that doesn't trust management. With that said, I would prefer to work weekends for AA at $30 an hour, rather then working for Luftansa tech, Timco or whoever. I would rather stay here at home rather moving to OKC, it looks like there are a lot of jobs opening up there, but they don't offer over $30 an hour with a pension and health benefits, it actually looks they hire you on as a contractor for the first year without medical. I might have lost my pre funding, but having my full pension would have been nice. It looks like we will lose all the good retirement benefits, but that looks like the least of my problems now.

I don't think the vote NO coalition was very successful in protecting jobs, wages, or benefits as passionate as they might be. The situation at AA is $29 billion in debt, and $24 billion in assets, I think those are the numbers.

 

[MCI transplant]

Who said anything about actually calling a strike?????? The rumor mill is spinning out of control and pre-bankruptcy Bob Owens supporters are now flippin like burgers on the only union official that kept everyone informed, and I'm not surprised.

Realistically E, I'm not sticking around and giving this company another 4 to 8 years of concessions......so, while most are busy posting rumors and complaining about Bob Owens.....I'm busy searching for jobs, and not in the aviation industry.

<_< -------- Strikeforce does have a point!----- Legally, you can't strike!----- But they can't stop you from voting with your feet!!!!----- Not an easy decision in these times, but there it is!!! And as I told my Son, "there is more to life than Airplanes!!!" Unfortunately, he's in aviation also, but does not work for AA! (Thank God!)

 

[Bob Owens]

Who said anything about actually calling a strike?????? The rumor mill is spinning out of control and pre-bankruptcy Bob Owens supporters are now flippin like burgers on the only union official that kept everyone informed, and I'm not surprised.

Realistically E, I'm not sticking around and giving this company another 4 to 8 years of concessions......so, while most are busy posting rumors and complaining about Bob Owens.....I'm busy searching for jobs, and not in the aviation industry.

Who has flipped? Same old same old out there.

Yes, a couple of Locals got together and retained an attorney because we did not want filtered information. We relied on the economist that the International hired and when he did the cost out he was $ 250 million off. Every assumption he made was in favor of the company. the company didn't even challenge the modified cost out.

On the issue of strikes, well plenty of judges ruled that "separate but equal" was legal, it took Rosa Parks to sit in one of the front seats, despite all the legal rulings, to change that legal injustice. Airline workers may need to follow the example of Rosa Parks, we should comply with what the RLA says, as much as it sucks it's a law that was put in place by elected representatives, not of couple of one per centers who aren't accountable to the public, and according to the RLA if our contract is abrogated we can resort to self help. If our contract is abrogated we must react and resort to self help in spite of the NWA ruling.Judges are not supposed to make laws, they are supposed carry out the law, the judges convoluted decision in the NWA case needs to be challenged and we ain't waiting for years while the legal system jerks us around, we have already been suffering for eight years. If workers under the NLRA can strike why can't workers under the RLA? The prohibition on strikes or self help in the RLA is clear that it's tied to the status quo. Hortons own statements say that he went this route for strategic reasons, that he was no using the code for its intended purpose, so they better not even think about touching our contract. To them this is a game,"let's see how low we can drive them down before they rebel", but we ain't playing, when it starts injunctions won't stop it.
This is a watershed moment, everyone will be watching us, if they abrogate our contract or use BK to once again get what they want everyone else should be prepared to face the same thing again. They will keep taking till we rebel, when we go we will need everyone else to go as well.
Bankruptcy deals with creditors, when you extend creyou wand exchange something of value without getting something back at the time of the exchange you take a risk, when a court tells exxon that they have to sell fuel to a bankrupt carrier for $1 gallon or tell the PONY that they can only charge $ 100 to land a 777 at JFK then they may have an argument to try and justify what they have done to workers Real people should not be treated as the property of corporate persons, our rights should be superior to the rights of corporate persons. If you extend credit you inherit risk, so the logic and legal argument behind wiping out debts and even terminating deferred compensation has some basis, but to impose terms going forward, regardless of the period is not where someone engaged in an activity where it's expected that there is risk, imposing terms going forward is nothing less than confiscating the property of one person for the unwarranted benefit of another.

 

[Bob Owens]

I certainly don't blame the vote NO coalition alone, I blame all three unions for not being able to get away from their own rhetoric, I blame management for creating such a bitter work force that doesn't trust management. With that said, I would prefer to work weekends for AA at $30 an hour, rather then working for Luftansa tech, Timco or whoever. I would rather stay here at home rather moving to OKC, it looks like there are a lot of jobs opening up there, but they don't offer over $30 an hour with a pension and health benefits, it actually looks they hire you on as a contractor for the first year without medical. I might have lost my pre funding, but having my full pension would have been nice. It looks like we will lose all the good retirement benefits, but that looks like the least of my problems now.

I don't think the vote NO coalition was very successful in protecting jobs, wages, or benefits as passionate as they might be. The situation at AA is $29 billion in debt, and $24 billion in assets, I think those are the numbers.
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[Bob Owens]

I certainly don't blame the vote NO coalition alone, I blame all three unions for not being able to get away from their own rhetoric, I blame management for creating such a bitter work force that doesn't trust management. With that said, I would prefer to work weekends for AA at $30 an hour, rather then working for Luftansa tech, Timco or whoever. I would rather stay here at home rather moving to OKC, it looks like there are a lot of jobs opening up there, but they don't offer over $30 an hour with a pension and health benefits, it actually looks they hire you on as a contractor for the first year without medical. I might have lost my pre funding, but having my full pension would have been nice. It looks like we will lose all the good retirement benefits, but that looks like the least of my problems now.

I don't think the vote NO coalition was very successful in protecting jobs, wages, or benefits as passionate as they might be. The situation at AA is $29 billion in debt, and $24 billion in assets, I think those are the numbers.

You can blame the unions for dragging out the BK, but it becomes more obvious that they would have filed even if every union had agreed to whatever the company wanted. They simply wanted to get two bites at the apple. In our case, they wanted get our Prefunding funds first, around $120 million between the whole TWU, then slide into BK and wipe out the liability to retirees. In 2003 we were told that they restructured their leases, so I was shocked when I learned that they still were leasing Fokkers, then add in leases at MCI and who knows how many other facilities. Obviously there wasn't much shared pain for other parties other than he employees. We should have gone into BK when we were fat, earning $37/hr instead of eight years later earning $32 with the least amomut of vacation, holidays, sick time , iod time etc. Those parasitic leases would have been shed then.
By the way AA doesn't hire at $30hr either.

$24 billion in assets and $29 billion in debt, using similar accounting methods they are in a lot better shape than most of us.

 

[787nightmare]

"by the way, AA doesn't hire at 30/hr..."

Don't I know.
Pffft, I'd be dancing in the streets.

 

[Bob Owens]

"by the way, AA doesn't hire at 30/hr..."

Don't I know.
Pffft, I'd be dancing in the streets.

We had a bunch of guys quit a few years back, at first they took a small pay cut but it didn't take long before they were making more than they were at AA.

If you are under 40 leave this industry and don't look back. Needless to say I don't encourage my kids to take in interest in this.

 

[NYer]

You can blame the unions for dragging out the BK, but it becomes more obvious that they would have filed even if every union had agreed to whatever the company wanted. They simply wanted to get two bites at the apple. In our case, they wanted get our Prefunding funds first, around $120 million between the whole TWU, then slide into BK and wipe out the liability to retirees. In 2003 we were told that they restructured their leases, so I was shocked when I learned that they still were leasing Fokkers, then add in leases at MCI and who knows how many other facilities. Obviously there wasn't much shared pain for other parties other than he employees. We should have gone into BK when we were fat, earning $37/hr instead of eight years later earning $32 with the least amomut of vacation, holidays, sick time , iod time etc. Those parasitic leases would have been shed then.
By the way AA doesn't hire at $30hr either.

$24 billion in assets and $29 billion in debt, using similar accounting methods they are in a lot better shape than most of us.

I'm confused. In the past didn't you say the Fleet deal was bad and they should turn it down? Well, then it seems with your argument it would have been better to go in with more money, holidays, SK time ect.

I don't understand the "two bites at the apple" analogy. Are you saying that they will not go after the Prefunding and Retiree Medical in BK? I don't think they need to piece meal their assault on the contract in that fashion. It seems like a ludicrous statement.