Strike ...... Whats The Point

[coolflyingfool]

At some point the company has to realize that it is not the employees pay that is sinking this airline. Everyone has taken substantial paycuts or lost their job and the company is still losing money. It has to be something other than pay scales that are bringing this airline down. Just my thoughts.......

 

[bestservedcold]

Cwa and AFA has okayed its members to strike if the judge ok's Usairways request to end union constracts.

What is expected to come from any strike..do the union expect the judge to change his mind and reverse his decision..I think not.
So what is the strike about ????
My suggestion to the unions is if you want to strike as a statement that you are against this proposal and strike for 24hrs that would be okay because everyone lose a days pay and everyone see your importance to the company and that you can shut things down but a indefinite strike would be meaningless because who you really hurt is all your co workers and yourself.

Another point ..if management is smart the lawyers for USairways will ask the judge for permission to get replacement workers within 24 hr if employees does not return to their jobs.
From the past I have noted that every concession reached by unions has been ratified by a majority which is to say if given the choice between job and no job the majority will choose a job and only the hard a$$ will stay home.

And remember if the judge oks U to fire any employee who strike because its illegal, to get your job back you will have to find a federal judge to say the BK judge was wrong and you were right otherwise you "strike" would be in vain..

And if the company shuts down and liquidates then there will be a lot of pi$$ed of employees who is not protected by union not to mention the people that Usairways owe money to who is saying this talk of strike is bs....
I bet there could very well be a class action lawsuit against AFA and CWA for authorizing the demise of Usairways.
Anywho the main point is Choose your battles well ...this is not worth fighting over
if you think you can get paid more then leave and find another job.
For me I want the company to stay together so I can go see the world cup next year in germany.

Look to the future!!!

[post="205355"][/post]​

You have to remember that a CHAOS strike is not like your traditional strike, although it can be if that is what AFA chooses.
It is a series of small work actions across the system, designed to prevent the company from knowing when or where it is going to happen. Therefore, the company cannot plan to have replacement workers available, even if they could get them trained that quickly.

It also protects the traveling public somewhat, because AFA can choose to CHAOS a US flight in a city where there are adequate flights and seats on another carrier, to get the passengers where they need to go. We do not want to hurt the passengers. We want to demonstrate to the company that we are capable of creating the kind of upheaval in their lives, as they have in ours, for years.

The reason the AFA international, and all of the airlines that they represent, have agreed to this is because if US is successful in the courts, then all of the other airlines will follow suit. That is also why American flight attendants, (who are not even AFA affiliated) have agreed to help AFA if the contracts are abrogated. It will truly be a "race to the bottom!"

CHAOS is a proven technique that does exactly what it's name implies, creates CHAOS. You can hardly blame the employees at US, or for that matter throughout the industry, for wanting to be able to control the chaos that we have been forced to endure. The only difference is that this time, the unions would be calling the shots.

Organized labor in every industry across the country has been taking a lickin' for years. It seems to me that it would behoove any labor unions that works on any airline property in this country, to climb on the CHAOS bus, should a CHAOS strike occur on their property.

Because, if the abrogation of the US contracts is successful, then what is to prevent any management team in any industry from doing the same with their contracts? ALL ABOARD!!!

 

[Bear96]

Thirteen years of promises of great things if only we employees will endure the sacrifice. Thirteen years of sacrifice. And for what?

Jim

[post="205399"][/post]​

Jim,

I generally agree with what you are saying, but just to play devil's advocate for a moment...

Isn't it valid at all to point out that the "for what?" has been thirteen years of employment, paychecks, insurance, etc., since those promises were made? Doesn't that count for something? Is that not better than the alternative if not having had even that had U gone under thirteen years ago?

 

[mrfish3726]

I care more about my self respect, profession, and personal integrity over working for a company that has NOOOOOOO RESPECT, INTEGRITY, nor understanding.

 

[bobcat]

madders

Who will be p####ed off? Non union, maybe not. There are quite a few that I hear daily that are hoping to get layed off ASAP. CWA, AFA and IAM surely will not be p###ed. Maybe just the pilots...oh well. Creditors? They should have fixed that problem the first go around in bankruptcy. The CWA and AFA are prepared for a possible liquidation and for many that can't come too soon. If that is what the end result is then that is what it is. I think everyone that voted in favor of a strike know what the outcome may be so, does that tell you anything? Adrenaline is running high and the fear is gone.

 

[bobcat]

CLT-Douglas

Who cares what the press puts in print. They haven't been telling the whole and truthful story since day one. It's management and management alone that has caused this debacle. The employees know it and that is all that matters.

 

[jack mama]

If you strike, do the leaders that said it was ok still get paid? You go without pay, and they continued to get paid....

wow, seems like the anger is placed in the wrong direction

 

[bobcat]

PineyBob

2/3 to cross the picket lines? DREAM!!!!!!

 

[bestservedcold]

If you strike, do the leaders that said it was ok still get paid? You go without pay, and they continued to get paid....

wow, seems like the anger is placed in the wrong direction

[post="205449"][/post]​

I may be wrong here, but i seem to recall that when Alaska employed CHAOS, those employees that honored the strike were able to collect unemployment, whether they were the f/a's that actually struck the flights, or other unionized employees that honored that picket line.

I believe that they had to go through the appeal process prior to collecting. But, the beauty of it is that there is a list that you put yourself on that tells the union that you are willing to be the employee working the flights that are to be CHAOSed!

I know that the list that US had when Wolf and Gangwal were still here was quite long. I was on that list, and I was fully prepared to Chaos if asked. Additionally, once CHAOS is employed, no contract will be agreed to without the caveat that any employee that honors CHAOS, and is disciplined, is made whole! If they were terminated, they get their jobs back with no discipline on their record, and no loss of seniority, vacation, sick, etc.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Isn't it valid at all to point out that the "for what?" has been thirteen years of employment, paychecks, insurance, etc., since those promises were made? Doesn't that count for something? Is that not better than the alternative if not having had even that had U gone under thirteen years ago?

[post="205435"][/post]​

Hey, no problem with you playing "devil's advocate".

It that had been touted as the result of each of those concessions, I would say that I would have no argument. But it wasn't.

The employees met their end of the bargain each time. Are we better off today than 13 years ago? No, we only have a job - with lower pay and fewer (more expensive) benefits. That wasn't the deal offered each and every time.

Management used each and every concession as a crutch to keep the airline limping along. No structural changes, nothing to better compete with the LCC's that have been cited in every annual report during this period as a competitive challenge. Nothing but take their bonuses, golden parachutes, etc. They kept that part of their bargain.

At some point you have to conclude that maybe the employees aren't the problem. At some point you have to figure that this downward slide will only stop when employee concessions can't be enough to keep limping along - a point I believe we have reached.

Jim

 

[deano]

If you strike, do the leaders that said it was ok still get paid? You go without pay, and they continued to get paid....

wow, seems like the anger is placed in the wrong direction

[post="205449"][/post]​

Righteous angry is different, of course you are clueless, or in your mind, above it.

 

[balloonguy]

You have to remember that a CHAOS strike is not like your traditional strike, although it can be if that is what AFA chooses.
It is a series of small work actions across the system, designed to prevent the company from knowing when or where it is going to happen. Therefore, the company cannot plan to have replacement workers available, even if they could get them trained that quickly.

It also protects the traveling public somewhat, because AFA can choose to CHAOS a US flight in a city where there are adequate flights and seats on another carrier, to get the passengers where they need to go. We do not want to hurt the passengers. We want to demonstrate to the company that we are capable of creating the kind of upheaval in their lives, as they have in ours, for years.

The reason the AFA international, and all of the airlines that they represent, have agreed to this is because if US is successful in the courts, then all of the other airlines will follow suit. That is also why American flight attendants, (who are not even AFA affiliated) have agreed to help AFA if the contracts are abrogated. It will truly be a "race to the bottom!"

CHAOS is a proven technique that does exactly what it's name implies, creates CHAOS. You can hardly blame the employees at US, or for that matter throughout the industry, for wanting to be able to control the chaos that we have been forced to endure. The only difference is that this time, the unions would be calling the shots.

Organized labor in every industry across the country has been taking a lickin' for years. It seems to me that it would behoove any labor unions that works on any airline property in this country, to climb on the CHAOS bus, should a CHAOS strike occur on their property.

Because, if the abrogation of the US contracts is successful, then what is to prevent any management team in any industry from doing the same with their contracts? ALL ABOARD!!!

[post="205428"][/post]​

You say "we don't want to hurt the passengers". Really??? By forcing U to cancel a flight (s), you cause the "passenger" that you don't want to hurt to have to stand in a long line to hopefully get a new ticket written on another airline and flight, not to mention having to reclaim their baggage, stand in another Airline's line at a ticket counter and probaly have to be re-screened. Also, create the potential for a more in-depth screening since you have now caused that passenger to have a one-way ticket issued and the same day as the flight. Furthermore, that passenger will be substantially delayed in getting to their final destination, if at all. If it's a business traveler, they can kiss their meeting goodbye!!

You just don't get it do you? Have you ever heard of "dancing with those that brung ya"? The loyal customers over many many years have put up with your bad attitudes and lack of service far longer than we should have. You don't care about us and we are at the point where we absolutely don't care about YOU!!

 

[Finish or Ignore]

"This is a difficult and painful decision, but we need to take this action now, before we find ourselves in a severe crisis," said Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Gordon Bethune. "While a competitive financial analysis would support our asking for substantially larger reductions, $500 million is the absolute minimum we need to be a survivor. As always, we will work together to identify solutions that treat each employee fairly as we achieve the necessary savings."

To take the appropriate lead in these cost reductions, President and Chief Operating Officer Larry Kellner, who becomes chairman and CEO at the end of this year, has agreed, effective Feb. 28, 2005, to reduce both his base salary and his annual and long-term performance compensation by 25 percent. Also effective on that date, Executive Vice President Jeff Smisek, Continental's president-elect, has agreed to reduce both his base salary and his annual and long-term performance compensation by 20 percent. Both Kellner and Smisek will also decline to accept their annual bonus if earned for 2004.

Additionally, the company's three other most senior executives (Jim Compton, executive vice president-marketing; Jeff Misner, executive vice president and chief financial officer; and Mark Moran, executive vice president-operations) have agreed to reduce both their base salary and their annual and long-term performance compensation by 20 percent, effective Feb. 28, 2005.


Is U management "working together...to treat employees fairly"?

 

[Seatacus]

CHAOS is a proven technique that does exactly what it's name implies, creates CHAOS. You can hardly blame the employees at US, or for that matter throughout the industry, for wanting to be able to control the chaos that we have been forced to endure.

[post="205428"][/post]​

Yeah right.....it creates CHAOS for the passengers and the agents who have to deal with them. Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[madders]

As i said in the beginning if you want to make a point that you are tired of management and being the one sacrificing the most then my suggestion is to do a walkout for 24 hrs....
A 24 hr strike would shut down the company for 24hrs Usairways would lose some money ..Your point would be made.
Strike is usually done to negoitiate a contract ..well there will be no contract to negoitiate so an indefinite strike really makes no sense.

Usairways have made a lot of mistakes in the past .
After 911 airline business change and the whole airline industry has to change..
Look around DL AA CO NW all are negoitiating to cut cost ....
DL only have to discuss with one group the other groups at DL has gotten their jobs axed or pay cut.
Usairways business plan from BK 1 was endorsed by the government(atsb) , the creditors , the BK court and yeh the unions.
That plan has significantly cut the losses from 600m to a mere 125m...
that is an accomplishment..
The plan did not take into effect the Iraq war and the rise of fuel cost that came from it or Southwest coming into PHL and forcing U to cut prices therefore reducing revenue..
Come on people those in upper management are Humans you know they make mistakes..they are neither GODS or perfect..give em a slack.
For crying out loud they use to have 30 vps now they have 14 .

All I am saying is study what is going on and use your head not your heart . You are angry ...and that feeling is of the heart ...but be rational that is you thinking things through..

I am not anti Union ..I am looking reality in the face..
I am not a pilot.....
And U going out of business will not be tragic for me...some people think it will be a kick in my a$$ to start some projects...because it will give me access to my 401k and unemployment..
I will rebound..my cars are paid for and my house is halfway paid for
I live within my means..so I am not too worried