AWA ALPA Thread 9/28 to 10/05

[Richard]

OK New Week New Thread--let's keep er on course folks....

 

[fatherabraham]

Question: How do you as a AWA pilot justify ( in your moral view of things ) capturing the attrition of a "future" brother union pilot ahead of him/her?

Imho relative seniority argument does not warrant above. Asked this a couple times over last couple months with NO response.
Please offer your reasons and not the same we have all read a thousand times ie: arb, doh, los, unreasonable etc.
FA

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA ALPA MEC Hotline - September 28, 2007

• Two-Year Anniversary of Merger
• Retiring of America West Certificate
• FOS Migration
• New China Routes
• Check Gate for Jumpseaters, Non-Revs
• Negotiations Update

Two-Year Anniversary of Merger

Yesterday marked the two-year anniversary of the merger between America West and US Airways. To commemorate the day, the MEC distributed a news release to the media urging management to take the final steps in completing this merger. Only a joint pilot contract will enable the new US Airways to capture the full synergies management promised investors, passengers and employees. The only ones who have benefited from this merger so far are on the 9th floor at corporate headquarters. Our contract, which as we all know was negotiated under severe ATSB loan restrictions, contains substandard pay, work rules and benefits. Our East counterparts are also working under a bottom-of-the-barrel contract that was gutted in two bankruptcies, and they picketed DCA yesterday for pay parity. We support the efforts of our union brother and sister pilots on the East, and we will continue to work for even more through the joint negotiations process. A copy of our release can be found on the secure portion of the MEC's website.
Back to top

Retiring of America West Certificate

After more than 24 years, we said farewell to the America West operating certificate this week. While it will now only live in our memories, we can be proud of the spotless safety record we helped maintain from the beginning of our airline’s history. Safety and security are our top priorities, and we ask every pilot to maintain this focus every time you enter the cockpit.
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FOS Migration

The single FAA operating certificate brought with it a number of procedural changes. To ensure the Sabre/FOS migration was done in a safe and efficient manner, many of our check airmen and pilots volunteered and helped fellow pilots with the transition. In making the switch, there were some minor glitches along the way, but it was thanks to the hard work and dedication of our pilots that made it go as well as it did. Another job well done by our pilots. Now it’s time to ask management, “When are we going to be rewarded for not only doing our jobs safely, but for consistently going above and beyond to help management build a better airline for our fellow employees and our
passengers?"
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New China Routes

Six new China routes were awarded this week to U.S. carriers by the Department of Transportation. Delta will begin service immediately; United will begin service in 2008, and American, Continental, Northwest and our own US Airways will begin service in 2009. US Airways announced that it would fly an A340 nonstop daily from Philadelphia to Beijing. While we hope that management can pull themselves together and complete the merger prior to 2009, we will not leave anything to chance and will ensure that the terms under the Transition Agreement or joint contract related to this new route and aircraft are complied with.
Back to top

Check Gate for Jumpseaters and Non-Revs

Though we are in between the end of summer travel and the beginning of the holiday rush, we ask every pilot to remember to check the gate for jumpseaters and non-revs prior to each flight. Your diligence will help fellow employees reach their destinations, whether they are headed for home, vacation or work.
Back to top

Negotiations Update

As mentioned earlier, MEC Chairman John McIlvenna and our negotiators—Captain Doug Dotter, First Officer Jim Van Sickle and Captain Russ Payne—met with the management negotiating team this week in Washington, D.C. Per the East MEC’s resolution, representatives of the East pilot group were not in attendance.

At the meeting, our negotiators received management’s counter proposals to Sections 5 (Expenses), 14 (Sick Leave), 27 (Insurance), and 28 (Retirement), and scheduled tentative dates to meet in October, November and the first two weeks of December.

There is still much work that needs to be done until an acceptable joint contract can be achieved. But to do so, management needs to come to the table with reasonable proposals that recognize the contributions and sacrifices of the East and West pilot groups. We must not forget—nor can we allow management to forget—that it was the blood, sweat and tears of America West and US Airways pilots that made our new airline a success.

Captain Tania Bziukiewicz
Communications Committee Chairman

 

[BottomFeeder]

AWA MEC gets their wish of RECALLS but it seems that instead of the East it is going to be the West that is recalled.

Can anyone confirm this rumor coming from the West?

 

[exB717Flyer]

AWA MEC gets their wish of RECALLS but it seems that instead of the East it is going to be the West that is recalled.
Can anyone confirm this rumor coming from the West?

No idea what you're talking about.

 

[USA320Pilot]

It has come to my attention that a PHX-based pilot is filing a recall resolution for all four PHX Reps.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[Cactus737]

It has come to my attention that a PHX-based pilot is filing a recall resolution for all four PHX Reps.

Regards,

USA320pilot

And I'm sure it will fail miserably as have the other previous attempts - if your rumor is even remotely true.

 

[Cactus737]

Question: How do you as a AWA pilot justify ( in your moral view of things ) capturing the attrition of a "future" brother union pilot ahead of him/her?

Imho relative seniority argument does not warrant above. Asked this a couple times over last couple months with NO response.
Please offer your reasons and not the same we have all read a thousand times ie: arb, doh, los, unreasonable etc.
FA

It appears to me that there have been several replies to your question, but you don't like any of the answers so you disregard them as non-responses.

I'll do my best to give you an objective answer, based upon what I know.

Yes, the Nicolau Award gives the West guys *some* of the East attrition, assuming of course, that a large percentage of West pilots will come East to fill those slots. The "transfer of captain years" baloney your MEC keeps touting in fact assumes that each and every AWA pilot WILL bid the first upgrade they can hold, wherever that may be. That isn't going to happen, and I'm sure it doesn't happen on the East now. There are hundreds of AWA pilots who have bypassed upgrades because either a) their schedule as a senior FO is much more important than making more $$$, and/or B) they don't want to commute to LAS, which is only a 46 minute flight from PHX. I'm sure there will be an even larger percentage who will opt out of bidding an East vacancy to chase money.

But hey - let's assume that every AWA pilot does come East as fast as they can because the award allows it, right? Well, don't forget that any East pilot can come West too. I can tell you first hand, that I have had a BUNCH of East pilots in the jumpseat commuting to work out of West coast cities. How fair is it for one of them to bid a captain vacancy ahead of a senior PHX FO who had an EXPECTATION of upgrading in PHX when he was hired by AWA? Also, typically the most senior airline domiciles are those with the lowest costs of living. Where would that make the senior bases - CLT and PHX? The bottom line is that neither side negotiated fences to protect against that sort of thing, and neither side got awarded them by Nicolau.

During the arbitration, my MEC was publishing the trascripts, and I read most of them. The reason I mention that is because the case is complex, and there are many factors that were weighed into the decision. Meaning, there are reasons why the AAA pilots didn't get exlusive use of their attrition (nor does AWA get exclusive use of OUR attrition either). Here's a few off the top of my head from the arbitration:

1) Most of the East attrition came from FO & furloughed pilots. Almost all of the West attrition came from senior captains. IE, although the West has smaller attrition numbers, a higher percentage of the West pilot group benefits from each retirement than the East does.

2) Pilot Earning Model. It models what the total earnings are for each group, as a stand alone and with the Nicolau Award. The model assumes current book rates for the stand-alone scenarios, and AWA rates for the "award" scenario. Assuming the rates in a joint CBA will be higher than current West book, the numbers here will understate the ACTUAL earnings different. Bottom line: AWA pilots will earn about 3% more with the award than without, and AAA pilots will earn about 12% more with the award than without. And those earnings figures are through 2039, when the youngest AWA pilot retires at 60.

3) Career expectations. This goes beyond who was in bankruptcy and who was not at the time of the merger. This goes back 20 years. Your guy "Hershey" testified. A 1989 hire, been on furlough for a long time, says that he should retire in the top 50 at US Airways. This is after he spent most of the time he was there skidding across the bottom of the seniority list and being furlough twice. Our MC Chairman testified. He was hired within 2 weeks of Hershey, yet is in the top third of the AWA seniority list. How can you argue that those two pilots, hired within two weeks of each other, belong next to each other on a seniority list? Also, there's a piece I'll post below that was written by your MEC Chairman that speaks volumes about what East career expectations were at the time of the merger.

4) The retioing isn't ONLY for attrition. It's how the growth flying is divided up too. You guys get 2/3 of the highest-paid flying, and half of the lowest paid flying. Don't forget too, that domestic flying is shrinking and international flying is growing. Sorry, but I'm having a hard time finding the "windfall" in those ratios.

5) It is highly unlikely that there would have been East attrition-based upgrades or recalls without the merger, and in fact, they only started materializing well over a year after the merger was consummated.

I doubt you'll find my answer to your liking, but I don't expect that you and I will ever agree on what's FAIR (if there is such a thing). The only FAIR thing I thought was having a (well respected) third party make the decision for us.

I don't ever expect you to like that decision; hell, there are things I don't like about it. But it is irresponsible to assume that the award is "flawed" without fully educating yourself on the cases presented and the rationale behind the decision.

Maybe now you can answer my question:

"How do you as an AAA pilot justify in your moral view of things that taking all of the upgrades, accepting none of the furloughs, and reaping 80% of the benefit of a joint contract is fair?"

Because, in reality, that's what your MC's proposal was and that's the reality of a length-of-service integration that keeps *your* attrition separate. Do you really think it's brotherly of you to expect that all AWA pilots sit stagnant awaiting a furlough while enjoying a raise that's a fraction the size of the raise received by the East?

 

[Cactus737]

"WHAT A DIFFERENCE A YEAR MAKES"
By: Captain Jack Stephan, AAA MEC Communications Chairman
From: US Airwaves, Summer 2005, pages 14-16

What a difference a year makes! Last year
at this time, the MEC and its entourage
were sequestered at Washington, DC,
hotels, diligently working out the details of our
participation in the Transformation Plan. Each
Company and ALPA proposal was posted on the
pilots only website for all of us to see. For those
who were keeping score, it was a painful experience
to witness more and more of our contract
disappear, only to be replaced by provisions that
many of us never anticipated or ever saw coming.
I can’t remember a darker time in our history.
Both morale and available cash were at an alltime
low. Our pilot group was sharply divided on
how best to proceed. Many were simply fed up
and were promoting a max-pay-to-the-last-day
approach to management’s increasing ask. Others
were willing to cut their losses, and simply
voted with their feet, pursuing other careers and
other flying jobs, even if it meant living in the
deserts of Dubai. It was that bad.
Our unfortunate reality created ugly choices
and few alternatives. But in the end, LOA 93 was
ratified. I suspect that the basic desire to survive
prevailed, or even the thought that a ratified
agreement, while by no means any guarantee
that our problems were behind us, might buy
each of us precious time. For some, it would be
time to keep the pay coming in while the details
of our next job were lined up, and for others,
making the tremendous sacrifice to live to fight
another day. Either way, LOA 93 and all the
other subsequent ratified labor agreements kept
us standing in the face of the most predatory
economic forces in the history of the U.S. airline
marketplace.
I would never have imagined, though, that a
year later things would be so different. While
this airline is clearly not out of the woods yet,
there are clear signs that the chance to fight
another day may be well within our reach.
Who would have thought that if we emerged
from bankruptcy, investors would be waiting
and willing to provide us with over $600 million
in exit financing, especially at a time when oil is
hovering between $50 and $60 per barrel? To
this day, our cash reserves continue to be monitored
with the watchful precision of life support
instruments by our creditors and the ATSB. But
these watchful and fretful eyes also know that a
successfully emerged US Airways will exit bankruptcy
with access to over $2 billion in liquidity!
If that doesn’t provide us the ability to fight
another day, I don’t know what will.
How could this possibly have happened? First,
we must give the devil his due. The Company
was extremely successful in keeping frantic
wolves at bay. There were considerable forces at
play to dismantle the operation from key creditors.
They had already been burned once, and
our misfortune notwithstanding, they were looking
at ways to eek out the most dollars before we
could burn through them. Each operating day,
creditors watched over a million dollars disappear
from their hands. And somehow, the government
was persuaded to remain patient while
we burned through their collateral to continue
operating. Also recall that the Bush administration
felt that the best way to handle issues with
struggling carriers was to let the marketplace
determine the survivors.
We may deeply resent the fact that management
wanted such a large amount in cost savings
from the pilot group, but we weren’t the only
ones complaining, and then stepping up to the
plate, I am sure.

Somehow, Company representatives were able
to convince unwilling creditors and a recalcitrant
government that this franchise was worth it.
We were worth it because of the monumental
decision of the US Airways employees. Employees
who had ridden to hell and back were not
willing to allow seemingly insurmountable odds
to get in their way. We know all too well the
price we paid to remain in the game, but our
collective sacrifice has paved the way for opportunity.
This opportunity has been recognized by
many, including a previous reluctant investment
community, nervous creditors, suspicious government
stakeholders, and the shareholders and
employees of America West Airlines.
Yes, what a difference a year makes. Last
summer, we were embroiled in the excruciating
process of whittling our contract down so that it
would look like JetBlue’s and America West’s.
This summer we are part of a plan to create the
world’s largest premier low-cost airline. Last
summer we were the hunted. This summer we are
anxious to begin a hunt of our own. It will be nice
to be able to announce to the passengers of the
new US Airways that they “are now free to move
about the world!†And by the way, low cost does
not have to mean low class.
But before we all join hands and start singing
Kumbaya around the campfire, there is more
work to do. First, we must secure a transition
agreement. The new management of US Airways
tells us that if we emerge from bankruptcy
this fall, the merged operation of the two airlines
will not take place for a couple of years. In the
meantime, it will be critical to secure protections
through the transition agreement process.
Our brothers at America West share our concerns,
and we have every reason to believe our
collective solidarity will produce an agreement
that protects our individual flying and recognizes
our respective concerns.
Then there’s the little issue of the seniority
integration of all employee groups. You may
grow tired of hearing about the principles of
ALPA Merger Policy, but that’s just the way it
is. Remember, the policy does not dictate the
particular method of integration, it merely sets
guidelines. Recall also that there is no mention
in the policy that the pilot group who yells the
loudest will eventually prevail. Please remember
this when you participate on our Web boards
and when you come in contact with our brothers
and sisters at America West. No doubt that this
integration process will be fraught with anxiety.
But we’ve been there before. As US Airways
pilots, we are no strangers to anxiety and adversity.
But our hallmark is that those realities seem
to only strengthen our resolve. And as an old
coach of mine was fond of saying, “When you
reach the end zone, act like you’ve been there
before.†It is perhaps our consummate professionalism
that has enabled us to effectively deal
with the challenges that fate and the marketplace
have thrown our way.
And lastly, but perhaps most importantly, is
the need to monitor and protect our investment
and sacrifices that provided an opportunity for
so many. We cannot afford to have our operation
suffer at the hands of a lackluster and
distracted management. Our customers deserve
better and so do we. Too many times we have
seen managements squander the efficiencies
we provided. We cannot afford to bankroll a
management that does not know how to operate
this airline. We have all been around here longer
than our management. We all remember the
product we used to routinely deliver. I, for one,
am embarrassed by what has become of that
product. Our operation must improve, and those
responsible for its lackluster performance must
be held accountable.
You can help by participating in our Operational
Irregularity Survey on the pilots only
home page. People in Crystal City and RIDC
often only see numbers and ledger sheets. You
see the real picture of our operation day in and
day out. We have more than earned the right to
participate in our airline’s transformation, and
we have certainly earned the right to demand a
better operation, a better product for our passengers.
It only takes a few minutes to document the
numerous problems you encounter on the line.
We will need answers to the issues that you bring
forward in this survey.
If we didn’t care we would not be here today.
Recall the theme of ALPA’s last Board of
Director’s meeting—“Never Forget, Never
Quit.†To some pilots, I suspect that slogan has
little meaning, perhaps even trite, but we, the
never-say-die pilots of US Airways, have come
to know it as a way of life. Don’t forget all we
have sacrificed to provide the opportunity for so
many, and don’t quit demanding a commensurate
return on the investment we have made.
Yes, what a difference a year makes. Thanks
to you for making that difference possible. In
telling our story, we will not allow anyone to
forget who should get the credit.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Have you ever looked at the bottom of the page to see who is lurking?

Mr. United Spin Master spends a lot of time there.

AKA 767jetz

 

[767jetz]

Have you ever looked at the bottom of the page to see who is lurking?

Mr. United Spin Master spends a lot of time there.

AKA 767jetz

Hmmm... Such a small mind. Not surprised.

Just returned to my computer. Modern technology is amazing. I can actually log on to a web page and then minimize it while my wife checks her e-mail and does her work. THEN I can come back hours later to continue reading what I started, and amazingly enough the page is still there! Golly Gee! These computer's are cool! (Not too swift on the technology stuff, huh BF?)

Infact, just for you BF I think I'll leave these pages open ALL DAY, since I can see how much it bothers you to see my callsign at the bottom of your screen.

Peace,

767JETZ

 

[Tiger 1050]

Question: How do you as a AWA pilot justify ( in your moral view of things ) capturing the attrition of a "future" brother union pilot ahead of him/her?

Imho relative seniority argument does not warrant above. Asked this a couple times over last couple months with NO response.
Please offer your reasons and not the same we have all read a thousand times ie: arb, doh, los, unreasonable etc.
FA

It's a new airline that has proven to benefit both sides. Both sides should reap the rewards...

 

[BottomFeeder]

Infact, just for you BF I think I'll leave these pages open ALL DAY, since I can see how much it bothers you to see my callsign at the bottom of your screen.

Peace,

767JETZ

Mr United Spin Master

I love to fish.

It is fun to relax and wait for the hit.

When you go fishing with no bait and you get them to take hook, line and sinker.


Now that is a mastered art of fishing

CHEERS

 

[fatherabraham]

It appears to me that there have been several replies to your question, but you don't like any of the answers so you disregard them as non-responses.

I'll do my best to give you an objective answer, based upon what I know.

Thanks for response. I will respond below in red to your thoughts. First let me say my overall impression of all major airline pilots including AWA. Generally good folk who play by the rules. Generally just hear to do the job and blast asap giving little attention to union activities and rules governing them. Lot's of past history company gain by pilot apathy/inaction. At AAA the company has done very well playing the have's against the have nots. Hence the 57% AAA losers often refered to.
If I put myself in your shoes i assume 1) shooting for the stars in arb left nothing to lose ( as happened imo ) 2) would be politically incorrect to voice the attrition issue 3) if voiced #2 then would potentially weaken any future attrition settlement.

Yes, the Nicolau Award gives the West guys *some* of the East attrition, assuming of course, that a large percentage of West pilots will come East to fill those slots. The "transfer of captain years" baloney your MEC keeps touting in fact assumes that each and every AWA pilot WILL bid the first upgrade they can hold, wherever that may be. That isn't going to happen, and I'm sure it doesn't happen on the East now. There are hundreds of AWA pilots who have bypassed upgrades because either a) their schedule as a senior FO is much more important than making more $$$, and/or B) they don't want to commute to LAS, which is only a 46 minute flight from PHX. I'm sure there will be an even larger percentage who will opt out of bidding an East vacancy to chase money.

I disagree. 8 of 10 attrition openings in next ten years come from east. That is fact. Above is speculation.

But hey - let's assume that every AWA pilot does come East as fast as they can because the award allows it, right? Well, don't forget that any East pilot can come West too. I can tell you first hand, that I have had a BUNCH of East pilots in the jumpseat commuting to work out of West coast cities. How fair is it for one of them to bid a captain vacancy ahead of a senior PHX FO who had an EXPECTATION of upgrading in PHX when he was hired by AWA? Also, typically the most senior airline domiciles are those with the lowest costs of living. Where would that make the senior bases - CLT and PHX? The bottom line is that neither side negotiated fences to protect against that sort of thing, and neither side got awarded them by Nicolau.

Heard once the remaining # of PSA fellas left and believe it was south of 100 that live out west. Regardless, no I do not think it fair they take the c/o opening out west. You are obviously more knowledgeable of the specics of award than I. That said I think there were plenty of fences offered by East to protect AWA brethern.


During the arbitration, my MEC was publishing the trascripts, and I read most of them. The reason I mention that is because the case is complex, and there are many factors that were weighed into the decision. Meaning, there are reasons why the AAA pilots didn't get exlusive use of their attrition (nor does AWA get exclusive use of OUR attrition either). Here's a few off the top of my head from the arbitration:

1) Most of the East attrition came from FO & furloughed pilots. Almost all of the West attrition came from senior captains. IE, although the West has smaller attrition numbers, a higher percentage of the West pilot group benefits from each retirement than the East does.

8 of 10 retirements in next 10 years from east. Your facts above only slightly muddy up the water. Add to the above the other significant factor of an older east age group (hence medical retirments) and I see a major windfall for the AWA guy. Fact is, DOH integration with an older group ( AAA ) in itself lends to an overall career advancement ( wages ) for the AWA junior guy. Same as hiring on to a carrier that has not hired in 18 years. This seems like plain common sense to me.

2) Pilot Earning Model. It models what the total earnings are for each group, as a stand alone and with the Nicolau Award. The model assumes current book rates for the stand-alone scenarios, and AWA rates for the "award" scenario. Assuming the rates in a joint CBA will be higher than current West book, the numbers here will understate the ACTUAL earnings different. Bottom line: AWA pilots will earn about 3% more with the award than without, and AAA pilots will earn about 12% more with the award than without. And those earnings figures are through 2039, when the youngest AWA pilot retires at 60.

3) Career expectations. This goes beyond who was in bankruptcy and who was not at the time of the merger. This goes back 20 years. Your guy "Hershey" testified. A 1989 hire, been on furlough for a long time, says that he should retire in the top 50 at US Airways. This is after he spent most of the time he was there skidding across the bottom of the seniority list and being furlough twice. Our MC Chairman testified. He was hired within 2 weeks of Hershey, yet is in the top third of the AWA seniority list. How can you argue that those two pilots, hired within two weeks of each other, belong next to each other on a seniority list? Also, there's a piece I'll post below that was written by your MEC Chairman that speaks volumes about what East career expectations were at the time of the merger.

Imo career expectations is and always will be flawed. Pure speculation and horrible ALPA policy. Remember what i said @ top. The average Joe pilot is not going to proactively take on ALPA policy. Hence the ongoing fall of a once proud/well paid profession.

4) The retioing isn't ONLY for attrition. It's how the growth flying is divided up too. You guys get 2/3 of the highest-paid flying, and half of the lowest paid flying. Don't forget too, that domestic flying is shrinking and international flying is growing. Sorry, but I'm having a hard time finding the "windfall" in those ratios.

Not aware/informed enuf to comment on above.

5) It is highly unlikely that there would have been East attrition-based upgrades or recalls without the merger, and in fact, they only started materializing well over a year after the merger was consummated.

Imo above pure speculation. One could argue these issues till the cows come home. It was often said that PSA days were numbered in late 80's when Usair purchased them. True or not is pointless imo. Most all psa guys upgraded soon after merger. Just the way it is in a seniority based career. They still wined for years about west coast base closures to the fella on thier right. Remember for the most part human nature is " enuf about me....now what about me". That I think is why fences were offered. It was fair.

I doubt you'll find my answer to your liking, but I don't expect that you and I will ever agree on what's FAIR (if there is such a thing). The only FAIR thing I thought was having a (well respected) third party make the decision for us.

I don't ever expect you to like that decision; hell, there are things I don't like about it. But it is irresponsible to assume that the award is "flawed" without fully educating yourself on the cases presented and the rationale behind the decision.

Maybe now you can answer my question:

"How do you as an AAA pilot justify in your moral view of things that taking all of the upgrades, accepting none of the furloughs, and reaping 80% of the benefit of a joint contract is fair?"

If I put on those shoes....I think that AWA/aaa fences were the way to go. Simply put if i were the judge I would have protected/advanced each pilot group going forward as if they were still separate for as long as bottom pilot on roster (including furlough) were included to retirement.


Because, in reality, that's what your MC's proposal was and that's the reality of a length-of-service integration that keeps *your* attrition separate. Do you really think it's brotherly of you to expect that all AWA pilots sit stagnant awaiting a furlough while enjoying a raise that's a fraction the size of the raise received by the East?

Refer to above coment. As far as wages go....imo equal pay for equal work is fair. Period....forget the rhetoric

In closing let me say having worked with many AAA guys .....for the most part really good guys. I am sure it is no different @ AWA!

 

[AWA320]

Question: How do you as a AWA pilot justify ( in your moral view of things ) capturing the attrition of a "future" brother union pilot ahead of him/her?

Imho relative seniority argument does not warrant above. Asked this a couple times over last couple months with NO response.
Please offer your reasons and not the same we have all read a thousand times ie: arb, doh, los, unreasonable etc.
FA

Maybe because your arguement/request is sounding like the broken record it is!! All of this would have been well and good PRIOR TO mediation/arbitration not AFTER!!! You had over 16yrs to change a policy that you felt was unjust yet you stood by and did NOTHING!! WHY???

You and the AAA pilots lost nothing as a result of this transaction only gained while we in the west lost considerably! I watched my upgrade go from 8yrs to God knows where now!! How did we justify realitive, ???? Easy FA, it's the same place combined that we were on our respective lists.

Now quite frankly this topic is old and stale. The arb case is over and not amount of crying and moaning is ever going to change that! Not the federal courts not the state courts and certainly not usapa, IT'S OVER!!!! Move on...

To answer one of your questions below

Heard once the remaining # of PSA fellas left and believe it was south of 100 that live out west. Regardless, no I do not think it fair they take the c/o opening out west. You are obviously more knowledgeable of the specics of award than I. That said I think there were plenty of fences offered by East to protect AWA brethern.

No they didn't in fact offer a thing. Here is what your Philly capt rep Eric Rowe said "we've been thru this many times and you just let the arbitrator handle things. One day you just walk in the crew room look up on the wall at the new seniority list find your name and move on".

Well FA the list has been hanging on the wall since MAY, time to go find your name and move on pal!!!