August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[mike33]

oh well if we're not meeting with the company then I take it back , let's all share our self doubts ...

I have to agree with what JFK posted before about the NMB not releasing anyone due to the bad economy ...

This just goes to show you don't read what is communicated to you through your union. 141 sent out a brief on what was transpiring ! Good God Marvin !!!!!!!

Self doubts? are you serious?...by now there shouldn't be any after 2 yrs negotiating.

 

[robbedagain]

thanks 700. it will be interesting to see the donkeys' response tomorrow when they have a conference with the nmb.. contracts now

 

[700UW]

The unions need to go to Doogie Parker and tell him to get rid of Al H, and put someone in there who will negotiate, or there will be a work safe campaign and start making US eat metal.

 

[Kev3188]

Better yet, they need to make sure they have someone at the table who can not only play AH's game, but beat him at it...

 

[700UW]

Oh most people in there know his game, that is why they want to be released, its the only way an airline understands how to really negotiate, in all my years at US, we either went on strike, or into the 30 day cooling off period to get a new CBA.

 

[robbedagain]

time to play by the exact rule book 2 agents in the bin for ex 4 or 5 bags at a time on the belt loader etc if it goes out late then so be it screw them flippin donkeys and ah

 

[737823]

I need a favor from you, Josh; I'd really prefer it if you stopped posting such obvious truths and anti labor cliches. You may think otherwise, but most people on here are not low information posters, and it'd be nice if you ratcheted (sp?) up your talking points accordingly. Thanks mucho in advance.

Noted.

No.

Then explain what you meant in this post:

The demographics have changed quite a bit over the last year w/ early outs & retirements, so I'm not sure how a new election would play out. In my end-of-the-line station alone, we lost 3 "yes" guys, and 1 "no."

Imagine that! A manager touting the company line. 'Course the part unsaid there is that many benefitted employees have either transferred/taken early outs and/or retired, and are being replaced with Ready Reserves, who as you know have no benefits and no wage progression. Did he tout that to you as well? No?

It was a few years ago but I think she knew I was already familiar with RR and DL's staffing model. Btw it was one of the Japanese speaking red coats...

No need to post the Visene image but has DL recently done any cuts to target PM-NW facilities/employees since the SEA and SUX reservations centers? I can't imagine DL would close SLC in favor of other NWA centers.

That will no doubt come as a shock to the hundreds of employees that still work there.

I didn't say there were no employees there, I said there were very few. It wouldn't be significant in any drive to influence the results like say ATL, JFK, SLC or even BOS, SEA, etc would. And of course you will say the organizers won't write anyone off and I'm sure you would be correct but the union no longer has that large block of support they did in 2010 when there were significantly more (at the time dues paying) employees there.

Josh

 

[737823]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]And it looks like the company isn't going to move, since so much leverage has been given up. They don't have to! Plus the secret LOA's don't help either. The problem I (and many) have is how can you not improve on a old BK contract, when we are not in BK? Less scope? And they were touting the failed TA as great? Do they think that we are dumb? That's why there are protests throughout the system. Now the Early Out and their convoluted formula is tied to this next TA. The people who want to leave can't because they don't know what they are leaving with. It's nuts........[/background]

I will support my union, but when things like negotiating contrarily to the member's wishes, then it is a problem. In this industry, it is better to have one then not to have one. But we need an effective union, not one that will roll over to every company command and demand. They will sell out out for unlimited P/T and RR, (since more duespayers they get - PT & FT pays the same!), and don't care to fight for the current membership. The same people who put you there. That's why there is a lot of anti-union sentiment, especially amongst the sCO PCE, because they are not dues payers yet, and they are in a bit of a limbo situation. The IAM needs these duespayers now, and they seem like they will do anything to get them. But coming up with a crock of crap that is worse than what everyone presently has now, we will still be divided. And the job loss continues.....just like our cargo. And the six stations........

Yeah it is unfortunate for you guys. I feel for the sCO agents since they were dragged into this union and now fear losing their jobs, sure does a great job demonstrating the value of union protection when they join the IAM and the first contract they produce outsources 50+ stations and has the union leadership celebrating that POS as a monumental achievement. My friend (NTA F/A) says many of the EWR agents were uneasy about the union but were willing to give it a try and are disappointed with what they have seen so far. It is very clear the IAM worked to hastily bring you guys under a garbage agreement so the dues can begin flowing.

I also agree though that UA is overreaching but if the IAM is willing to give them everything they want why shouldn't they take it? If the ramp and PCE agreement were viable for UA in 2005 while they were in bankruptcy, you should be moving forward, not backwards today. They have restructured the business, merged with CO, you guys should get a piece of the "synergies" the management team kept touting during the merger. It is ridiculous that DL 141 signed away the cargo jobs as Tim has posted and that they are now doing informational picketing condemning the outsourcing when the IAM negotiated an agreement to ALLOW UA to outsource all but seven stations, and even CLE, a UA hub.

With that said I am curious why ramp and PCE are going under a single CBA. Is it somehow better than negotiating two separate CBAs like they have done before?

Josh

 

[freedom]

This just goes to show you don't read what is communicated to you through your union. 141 sent out a brief on what was transpiring ! Good God Marvin !!!!!!!

Self doubts? are you serious?...by now there shouldn't be any after 2 yrs negotiating.

once again I neither confirm nor deny whom you think I am ...

well gee , I excuse me for thinking that the company would be there , after all the talk on here has been how we wanted to push to get released , I simply assumed that the company would be at any meeting to bring up their side to the NMB ...

As for self doubts , sure I've thought that the reason we haven't been released thus far has been more complex than simply " you need more time to work things out " but i'm not one to say anything on here that I think would weaken the hand of our union ..

 

[psa8979]

Webster Dictionary definition of a Fascist, a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right -wing views. LCC. Contracts NOW ! or NMB re-lease US from our BONDAGE ! SOLIDARITY WORKS.

 

[700UW]

They werent dragged into the IAM, the CO ramp was IBT, there CBA has no scope language protections at all, there was an election between the IAM and the IBT and the IAM won.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

time to play by the exact rule book 2 agents in the bin for ex 4 or 5 bags at a time on the belt loader etc if it goes out late then so be it screw them flippin donkeys and ah

It shouldn't take stalled contract negotiations to get people to work safely,it should be automatic.

They can't bang you for working safely.

 

[737823]

They werent dragged into the IAM, the CO ramp was IBT, there CBA has no scope language protections at all, there was an election between the IAM and the IBT and the IAM won.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

True, but the agents were non-union, the IAM isn't currently collecting any dues from the sCO agents, sCO ramp they are administering the IBT agreement. The IBT agreement is also a POS that they put together quickly to begin collecting dues.

And under the old NMB rules the IAM would have lost at UA. Among the 16,720 eligible voters there were 8,305 votes for the IAM and 5,865 votes were cast for no representation, not exactly resounding support the IAM. More important roughly 3,000 people that didn't bother voting, but I'm sure Sito is happy they didn't vote. Like you defend how the IAM lost the FA election, the IAM sUA agents outnumbered the sCO non-union agents. But like I said hopefully the DL employees will look at how the IAM treated the CO agents and understand what is at stake if they vote in the IAM. Explain why the IAM blasts UA for outsourcing ALB, CVG, GRR, MDT, ROC when their own CBA language allows UA to outsource those stations? Why did they agree to T/A that allows UA to outsource all but seven station, the worst scope in the industry?

Josh

 

[700UW]

The PCE and RES are union at UA, and non-union at CO, there was an election held and the IAM won that also.

Once again, dont let the facts get in your way.

Dont try to spin it,l the old rules dont matter, you are just trying to make the IAM look bad as you always do.

The voters who dont vote, dont count, just like every other election in the US.

 

[737823]

The PCE and RES are union at UA, and non-union at CO, there was an election held and the IAM won that also.

Once again, dont let the facts get in your way.

You are seriously ignorant, did you not read my post? I posted all of that above.

Josh