August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[737823]

Workers were nothing more than expendable slaves in those days.

To the IAM dues payers are expendable. So funny that they negotiate agreements at UA with the worst scope in the industry and then whine and cry when UA outsource more stations this fall based on the original ramp and PCE agreements, just wait for Ira and Sito to bring back another T/A even more stations will be on the chopping block. Maybe even ready reserve too, but its undeniable that serious damage was done to their leverage by agreeing to that sh*t in the first place, UA likely won't move much from their original position. And what happens with negotiations at one carrier ultimately makes its way to employees covered under other agreements.

Cut-throat capitalism built fortunes for a select few

Organized labor and the IAM especially has built fortunes for a small few. People like Roach have made the union their career, Roach hasn't worked on the ramp for 30+ years, has been slurping $250k salary (plus benefits) for many years. Plenty of other IAM officers that contribute little to the organization stay around for their own self serving agenda. Plus untold numbers of other local and district lodge officials that are also milking it for all it's worth. So yes, unions have built fortunes for a small few while your members suffer and sacrifice people like Roach and Bufft enjoy a lifestyle of opulence flying Learjet, union provided vehicles, luxury hotels, etc.

Josh

 

[rockit2]

To the IAM dues payers are expendable. So funny that they negotiate agreements at UA with the worst scope in the industry and then whine and cry when UA outsource more stations this fall based on the original ramp and PCE agreements, just wait for Ira and Sito to bring back another T/A even more stations will be on the chopping block. Maybe even ready reserve too, but its undeniable that serious damage was done to their leverage by agreeing to that sh*t in the first place, UA likely won't move much from their original position. And what happens with negotiations at one carrier ultimately makes its way to employees covered under other agreements.



Organized labor and the IAM especially has built fortunes for a small few. People like Roach have made the union their career, Roach hasn't worked on the ramp for 30+ years, has been slurping $250k salary (plus benefits) for many years. Plenty of other IAM officers that contribute little to the organization stay around for their own self serving agenda. Plus untold numbers of other local and district lodge officials that are also milking it for all it's worth. So yes, unions have built fortunes for a small few while your members suffer and sacrifice people like Roach and Bufft enjoy a lifestyle of opulence flying Learjet, union provided vehicles, luxury hotels, etc.

Josh

It starts in the trenches, right out on the gate where those a/c are parked. Screw the arm bands and the rah-rah crowd, the breakroom warriors. If this fleet group does not start a nationwide safety campaign with all fleet cities participating then there will be no hope for a decent and fair contract. It all has to start with US.

 

[Kev3188]

You don't think our educational system is in trouble?

Many of his posts serve as prima facie evidence of just that...

Let's get back on to the topic of building solidarity in the work group with these new lanyards that the union is making ...

Translation: "I got nothin' "

Now... as far these armbands go... WTF? Didn’t the Pilots just get sued in the court of law for wearing yellow lanyards? Wasn't the Company’s argument that these lanyards were "non-approved" uniform items that perpetuated a clandestine work action?

Now, they are telling me the Company will ALLOW a non-uniform item like a “Support the Merger” armband?

In addition, the IAM will issue non-uniform armbands, or other uniform items in support of a contract?

This should be interesting from a legal perspective...

Interesting indeed. We had the same thing here at DL. My (unsolicited) suggestion is to hold the company to the letter of the stated uniform policy. If it says "no messaging" (or similar) w/r/t lanyards, wristbands, or armbands, then that means pro company ones are out too. It's an easy argument to make.

It starts in the trenches, right out on the gate where those a/c are parked. Screw the arm bands and the rah-rah crowd, the breakroom warriors. If this fleet group does not start a nationwide safety campaign with all fleet cities participating then there will be no hope for a decent and fair contract. It all has to start with US.

+1

We're often our own worst enemy...

 

[737823]

Interesting indeed. We had the same thing here at DL. My (unsolicited) suggestion is to hold the company to the letter of the stated uniform policy. If it says "no messaging" (or similar) w/r/t lanyards, wristbands, or armbands, then that means pro company ones are out too. It's an easy argument to make.

Short of filing a complaint with the NMB or IAM organizers what more can you do if the co allows non-union swag but forbids IAM or other union items? If it is not a company sanctioned item it should not be worn while on duty, and aren't union pins allowed per the CBA? If you aren't covered under a CBA why wear union swag?

Josh

 

[700UW]

We all ready did the sweatband in 99, Hemenway had a fit, even Rakesh wanted one and he got one. So you cant get in trouble for wearing one.

 

[Kev3188]

Short of filing a complaint with the NMB or IAM organizers what more can you do if the co allows non-union swag but forbids IAM or other union items?

Simple. You hold them to their own stated uniform and advocacy policies, and ensure that it is applied both equally and uniformly for both pro company & pro labor "swag."

 

[737823]

Good luck with that one. But again you aren't currently covered under a CBA, DL isn't stupid they will remain neutral to the extent the law requires. They have always played hardball with unions that try organizing and this time will probably be no different. Besides didn't you post awhile ago that your station lost numerous "yes" voters and have been back filled with RR "no" voters? One of the DTW managers told me that after the December 2010 decertification a good number of the unionists have left DL, and many RRs have been hired at DTW. Hasn't the same happened at MSP, and never mind MEM since there are hardly any flights or employees there anymore. Heck DL has more mainline flying at BOS than MEM.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

cb our shop steward said that soon we be getting the company support armband and not to wear them... i already know a few in my sta that wont wear it myself including no merger support til we get contracts period

cb do you have any idea as to how the conference will go or just wait n see approach

why would any fleet service wear a company armband supporting a merger over a contract? Management just doesn't listen, so why bother?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hopefully, the NMB will send all parties back to the table with explicit instructions to negotiate in good faith and reach agreements. hopefully, the NMB is getting tired of the company's position of D****** around, stalling and wasting everyone's time. We shall see. please keep us updated CB.

I think this is normally what the NMB does before granting a release. The process has been triggered so it's only a matter of time before granting a release [not anytime soon but definitely far far along than where United is]. The last release the NMB granted was to the pilot group at Spirit I believe two years ago.

 

[robbedagain]

tim i agree with you but as other posters have said there will be thousands of iam mr and fsa that will wear them no matter what..

 

[Kev3188]

Good luck with that one.

Don't need luck; just a solid grasp of HR policies. It's already been done here.

Not for nothing, pro labor pins are allowed under DL's advocacy policy- they just have to be the same size as years-of-service pins, can't say "yes" or "no," or be offensive.

But again you aren't currently covered under a CBA, DL isn't stupid they will remain neutral to the extent the law requires.

...And push the envelope as far as they can...

They have always played hardball with unions that try organizing and this time will probably be no different. just as difficult, if not more so

FIFY.

I need a favor from you, Josh; I'd really prefer it if you stopped posting such obvious truths and anti labor cliches. You may think otherwise, but most people on here are not low information posters, and it'd be nice if you ratcheted (sp?) up your talking points accordingly. Thanks mucho in advance.

Besides didn't you post awhile ago that your station lost numerous "yes" voters and have been back filled with RR "no" voters?

No.

One of the DTW managers told me that after the December 2010 decertification a good number of the unionists have left DL, and many RRs have been hired at DTW.

Imagine that! A manager touting the company line. 'Course the part unsaid there is that many benefitted employees have either transferred/taken early outs and/or retired, and are being replaced with Ready Reserves, who as you know have no benefits and no wage progression. Did he tout that to you as well? No?

Hasn't the same happened at MSP

Talking to several friends that work there, in the main, MSP is as union strong as ever.

and never mind MEM since there are hardly any flights or employees there anymore.

That will no doubt come as a shock to the hundreds of employees that still work there.

 

[freedom]

Now... as far these armbands go... WTF? Didn’t the Pilots just get sued in the court of law for wearing yellow lanyards? Wasn't the Company’s argument that these lanyards were "non-approved" uniform items that perpetuated a clandestine work action?

Now, they are telling me the Company will ALLOW a non-uniform item like a “Support the Merger” armband?

In addition, the IAM will issue non-uniform armbands, or other uniform items in support of a contract?

This should be interesting from a legal perspective...

i'm not sure if this yellow pilot lanyard is new or not , but I do remember a time when the east and west pilots used to wear different colors to identify themselves and I couldn't help thinking how very gang like they were behaving ... I figured the company made them stop wearing their colors because of all the incidents of violence that I heard about ...

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

The NMB needs to RELEASE US ! F/S and M/R the IAM UNION for a 30 day countdown.

They aren't releasing anyone, the economy is still in the crapper.Our negotiations dragged on for 3+ years before they filed for bankruptcy.We took the strike vote, the catchy slogans,the whole nine yards.The NMB isn't going to allow 10,000 airline employees to become unemployed by choice at this point,not in this economy.

The pilot group of maybe 500 at Spirit isn't a valid comparison.

 

[T5towbar]

To the IAM dues payers are expendable. So funny that they negotiate agreements at UA with the worst scope in the industry and then whine and cry when UA outsource more stations this fall based on the original ramp and PCE agreements, just wait for Ira and Sito to bring back another T/A even more stations will be on the chopping block. Maybe even ready reserve too, but its undeniable that serious damage was done to their leverage by agreeing to that sh*t in the first place, UA likely won't move much from their original position. And what happens with negotiations at one carrier ultimately makes its way to employees covered under other agreements.

And it looks like the company isn't going to move, since so much leverage has been given up. They don't have to! Plus the secret LOA's don't help either. The problem I (and many) have is how can you not improve on a old BK contract, when we are not in BK? Less scope? And they were touting the failed TA as great? Do they think that we are dumb? That's why there are protests throughout the system. Now the Early Out and their convoluted formula is tied to this next TA. The people who want to leave can't because they don't know what they are leaving with. It's nuts........



Organized labor and the IAM especially has built fortunes for a small few. People like Roach have made the union their career, Roach hasn't worked on the ramp for 30+ years, has been slurping $250k salary (plus benefits) for many years. Plenty of other IAM officers that contribute little to the organization stay around for their own self serving agenda. Plus untold numbers of other local and district lodge officials that are also milking it for all it's worth. So yes, unions have built fortunes for a small few while your members suffer and sacrifice people like Roach and Bufft enjoy a lifestyle of opulence flying Learjet, union provided vehicles, luxury hotels, etc.

Josh

I will support my union, but when things like negotiating contrarily to the member's wishes, then it is a problem. In this industry, it is better to have one then not to have one. But we need an effective union, not one that will roll over to every company command and demand. They will sell out out for unlimited P/T and RR, (since more duespayers they get - PT & FT pays the same!), and don't care to fight for the current membership. The same people who put you there. That's why there is a lot of anti-union sentiment, especially amongst the sCO PCE, because they are not dues payers yet, and they are in a bit of a limbo situation. The IAM needs these duespayers now, and they seem like they will do anything to get them. But coming up with a crock of crap that is worse than what everyone presently has now, we will still be divided. And the job loss continues.....just like our cargo. And the six stations........

 

[Harry Callahan]

It starts in the trenches, right out on the gate where those a/c are parked. Screw the arm bands and the rah-rah crowd, the breakroom warriors. If this fleet group does not start a nationwide safety campaign with all fleet cities participating then there will be no hope for a decent and fair contract. It all has to start with US.

What he said. You folks need to get it going.

Harry