August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[wings396]

While it all sounds simple to do on a load out of a Hub, things don't always go as planned. Last minute bags coming from all directions from the ABR runners, tons of gate checked bags etc. In most cases one of the bins are already closed up when they arrive at the gate. In the mean time you have a Mgr standing over you looking at his watch in anticipation of burning the crew if there is a delay. As we all know, in that case you toss the bags in whatever bin is still open, close it up as fast as you can.

 

[roabilly]

So is this the outcome you're hoping for?

Yes... he want's the IAM to fail for political reasons! Hmmmm.... sounds familiar!

 

[Black Magic]

So is this the outcome you're hoping for?

I'm a impartial realist and just telling it like I see it. Would I want more? Hell ya who wouldn't?! But it is what is. Best of luck to everyone.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You can hold me to that statement. I'll etch it in stone if I have too. I am talking about a complete compensation package that will be comparable for both AA/US ramp hopefully, it could be even slightly less on the US side. Make no mistake though the company will NOT agree to a contract that pays the IAM US hubs and stations more $$ than the package they have in place with TWU represented ramp. Get used to hearing the infamous "best its going to get" line from the ND team. We can vote down the contract, keep going back and forth with the only result of the company rearranging the numbers with the bottom line being the same.

That would be the company's choice. Maybe that's what they are telling the NC this week. But such 'take it or leave it' negotiations isn't, or at least shouldn't, move this merger forward. The company's latest 'synergies report' promised billions [not millions] to stockholders from combining the airlines. I may be wrong but I think Parker said it would create 1.4 billion net synergies combining, let alone the regular profits. Clearly, that's on the premise that labor is going to take what Parker's offer is. Labor doesn't have to. So if the IAM, AFA, ALPA, CWA, all pinch more, then maybe the net synergies will be worked down to 800 million. Just saying. But if nothing gets worked out then there is no way in hell Parker is going to get his 1.4 billion net profits to stockholders through combining. No fair contract = No Deal = No combining. And for the record, I haven't heard anyone on here mentioning anything that is unfair. I suggest that that means rewarding all the present employees who built this airline by committing the work to all current stations [not just ticketing], a fair wage that is north of the bankrupt AMR contract, and a bump in other benefits. I would say this, imo, sick time has become a joke now. I know that some folks want to increase sick time but I'd rather have any increases put in other areas. I realize sick time is important but it's almost like you can't use sick time without getting written up or at risk of losing your job. regards,

 

[cltrat]

Yes... he want's the IAM to fail for political reasons! Hmmmm.... sounds familiar!

actually I tend to agree with him, sure I want more and have hope that we get more but I don't think they will offer much if any more than what is being paid at AA. That has nothing to do with IAM or whatever series of letters you care to insert there.
I guess time will tell but look for a hour rate close to the AA rate.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'm going to hold you to that bold proclamation Black Magic. Just for clarification though... when you say "pays more" are you taking the "narrow minded" focus of hourly compensation or are you referring to the complete compensation package? Again, there is more to economic issues in a contract than just hourly wage. Such as job protection through scope language. Would you agree? On another note... I'm inclined to support a union that holds out... over a union that comes to an agreement in 2 weeks or so over compensation. There are two parties at the negotiating table. If the company wants an agreement with the IAM within 2 weeks I suggest they ante up. In the meantime... there will be labor unrest. Get it!

Great Post ograc. The AMR contract will be about 10% higher wages, i.e., $22.53 in September than ours. The retirement cost from the company to the employees is about the same. 5.5% 401k for AMR workers, or about 5% contribution into the IAM pension for US AIRWAYS workers. Of course that assumes the AMR worker is utilizing the match effectively, and it also assumes the US AIRWAYS worker is full time because part time workers at US AIRWAYS have very little company contribution [I think .65 cents??] or only 3%. As far as health plans, AMR is about $247 a month out of employees pockets, US AIRWAYS is about $82. Similar plans. An employee can choose more expensive plans on both carriers though. Key is that, part timers don't pay double for family at AMR as US AIRWAYS employees. Scope sucks in both contracts. AMR contract protects about 17 stations and 5 cargo centers. US AIRWAYS contract protects about 15 stations and 3 cargo centers and 2 large catering operations. The new LOA signed at US AIRWAYS protects all 28 current stations for 10 more months. US AIRWAYS also has tower under fleet. Leads make more at AMR. And of course the big one is that they will also have 4.8% stock in the company. US AIRWAYS fleet has no stock no nothing. US AIRWAYS has more sick days and more holidays. Total compensation, AMR is above US AIRWAYS but I don't even like making the comparison since both contracts are a result of serious bankruptcy damage.

 

[Tim Nelson]

actually I tend to agree with him, sure I want more and have hope that we get more but I don't think they will offer much if any more than what is being paid at AA. That has nothing to do with IAM or whatever series of letters you care to insert there.
I guess time will tell but look for a hour rate close to the AA rate.

I'm sure that is the company's position, if we look at history. Also, corporate greed is on the attack in this country and regardless of how much profits, these corporations don't want to pay squat. I just hope our position is to stand firm for once and not take a silly contract. I think many who have been around can wait. At least for me, it is more important to get commitments from the company regarding the expansion of scope and keeping medical cost low, and a fair wage. We must keep the tower, and catering, and I'd hope that our NC is negotiating the expansion of cargo in our hubs at PHL and CLT since the AMR model has cargo centers at all hubs. But, if the company is being fussy, then I'm willing to wait. This will be the last contract for many, realizing how long contracts take, so I think it should be one that we can feel decent about. regards,

 

[cltrat]

Tim I would love to see cargo return here, those clowns here do such a poor job. I could fill this forum with stories.
just look at the jobs too

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim I would love to see cargo return here, those clowns here do such a poor job. I could fill this forum with stories.
just look at the jobs too

It is something we would have to fight for. Not at the expense of catering. The company's position will clearly be that AMR doesn't do their own catering so why should US AIRWAYS? But, the alternative argument is that AMR does all of its own major cargo centers so why shouldn't US AIRWAYS? In a perfect world, all should be kept and enhanced from there. Clearly, we aren't dealing with a bankrupt carrier in US AIRWAYS, and Parker himself said that the combined carrier has potential to make $4 billion per year. Why not have its own employees expand their professionalism here instead of contracting out to some half arse mom and pop service that tears up equipment and destroys cargo? regards

 

[roabilly]

actually I tend to agree with him, sure I want more and have hope that we get more but I don't think they will offer much if any more than what is being paid at AA. That has nothing to do with IAM or whatever series of letters you care to insert there.
I guess time will tell but look for a hour rate close to the AA rate.

One thing to remember is this... WE are the final say on anything the NC negotiates! My hope is that CB, and the others realize the leverage that Tim Nelson just outlined. If they don’t... the Membership will! We just won’t ratify any T/A until its fair... its as simple as that!

The new AA will be the largest in the WORLD, with projected profits to match. None of this can be accomplished without Labor’s blessing!

I ask that Instead of badmouthing your union... start participating. Let the NC, and the Company know that you won’t accept anything less than an Industry Leading Agreement. After all, the combined carrier will lead the Industry... GLOBALLY!

 

[cltrat]

One thing to remember is this... WE are the final say on anything the NC negotiates! My hope is that CB, and the others realize the leverage that Tim Nelson just outlined. If they don’t... the Membership will! We just won’t ratify any T/A until its fair... its as simple as that!

The new AA will be the largest in the WORLD, with projected profits to match. None of this can be accomplished without Labor’s blessing!

I ask that Instead of badmouthing your union... start participating. Let the NC, and the Company know that you won’t accept anything less than an Industry Leading Agreement. After all, the combined carrier will lead the Industry... GLOBALLY!

I don't call what I said as bad mouthing my union or any other one for that matter. I simply stated that no matter what union is at the table the result will likely be the same.
As for voting yes we can vote against it or for it , but the company is fully capable of doing some deck stacking too. You recall the last time where we had to go to the lodge to vote and where at another hub that a yes vote was likely they were allowed to vote right on property.Do you think the turnout here the last time would have been better had we been able to go over to say Team 2 and voted?
Do not under estimate the depths the company will go too for their objective with nothing the union can do about it or at least the last time there wasn't.

 

[roabilly]

I don't call what I said as bad mouthing my union or any other one for that matter. I simply stated that no matter what union is at the table the result will likely be the same.
As for voting yes we can vote against it or for it , but the company is fully capable of doing some deck stacking too. You recall the last time where we had to go to the lodge to vote and where at another hub that a yes vote was likely they were allowed to vote right on property.Do you think the turnout here the last time would have been better had we been able to go over to say Team 2 and voted?
Do not under estimate the depths the company will go too for their objective with nothing the union can do about it or at least the last time there wasn't.

I wasn't aiming the badmouthing comment directly at you... it was for ALL that read here. I know all about the election/vote tricks and strategies-- I've been around for 35 years... not much I haven't seen!

As far as voting down a substandard T/A... I would like to refer you to what UA just did. If the membership is involved, and determined enough, it can be done! Remember 08? No one thought that FS could solidify enough to remove an entire District from the President down to the Grievance Committee... but we DID!

Patience, and dogged determination are the only real tools we have to work with...

 

[ograc]

I wasn't aiming the badmouthing comment directly at you... it was for ALL that read here. I know all about the election/vote tricks and strategies-- I've been around for 35 years... not much I haven't seen!

As far as voting down a substandard T/A... I would like to refer you to what UA just did. If the membership is involved, and determined enough, it can be done! Remember 08? No one thought that FS could solidify enough to remove an entire District from the President down to the Grievance Committee... but we DID!

Patience, and dogged determination are the only real tools we have to work with...

Witnessed the 08 revolution first hand. A true example of the results a solidified membership can achieve. There are some posters on here who have little faith or hope in the IAM achieving an industry leading contract. They predict nothing better than what AA got under bankruptcy with a MOU. I'm sure the company wishes the majority of our membership had such low expectations. I have to believe one who sets the expectation bar so low would vote for any sub par agreement; then turn around and blame it on the union and the NC. Luckily, IMO... members such as the fore mentioned are a minority. I remain convinced the vast majority of the membership has had their fill of sub par concessionary contracts. I remain convinced the vast majority will wait it out and do whatever is necessary to achieve a respectable contract. The NC is only as strong as the dogged determination and solidarity of the members they represent. Let's learn something from the 08 election of District Officers and our Sisters and Brothers at UA.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Cltrat, the previous union leadership was responsible where the vot were conducted. This leadership team will also decide where members vote. Imo, just looking at the seniority list, id say most of our membership is over 45 years old and are too young to retire but too old to find another job, thus this will probably be the last contract they are under so my hunch is that they wouldnt mind waiting to make sure a fair contract is ratified. Clearly, the company dictates that timing so we should support the nc and educate those in the breakrooms about holding our cards and not tossing them in for a substandard ta. Mf and mb came into a breakroom in ord on monday and they said that is their resolve. Those wanting a contract right now due to no patience are most likely ignorant on the process.

 

[T5towbar]

There are a good number of careless loads, that is true. I do think it's gotten better since the merger though, I'd say PHL has much improved. Aren't mainline conx, express conx, interline, locals, and locals priority all supposed to be separated? Somewhat of a challenge on a 321 ground time turn with late arriving bags and large numbers of gate checks.

While it all sounds simple to do on a load out of a Hub, things don't always go as planned. Last minute bags coming from all directions from the ABR runners, tons of gate checked bags etc. In most cases one of the bins are already closed up when they arrive at the gate. In the mean time you have a Mgr standing over you looking at his watch in anticipation of burning the crew if there is a delay. As we all know, in that case you toss the bags in whatever bin is still open, close it up as fast as you can.

Bin salad is not good......
One or two late bags before out time, but when the load comes in mixed, that's a problem on a quick turn.