August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Jester,
My assumption is that you dont have a bunch of morons as leads so what gives? I mean as long as you work safe and do your job then whats the fuss?

 

[roabilly]

now i apprehend what you meant. I agree all should stay informed of the processes and strategies. Someone uninformed could conclude that the nc isnt doing its job because it has taken too long. Someone informed would realize that its alot longer to go if its goingto be done right. Im not sure ill be around in 5 years to wait out what will be sure to be a long drawn out transition agreement, so i myself feel ill be retiring on this present section 6 talks, so id like it to be done right. For everyones sake.
Front and center, we need to protect the tower, clp, and catering. Along with a commitment to all employees not to contract out their jobs. The merger should never be used to contract out anyones job.

Nelson,

I trust that you will be mailing your pension (IAMNPF) checks back to the administrator? Accepting a penny from the evil IAM, or any pension for that matter would be sacrilege!

 

[P. REZ]

OK P. Rez,

Before I even consider giving him a chance, can you confirm to me his in fact a FSA working in PHX? Do you know him? If you can personally vouch for him, I’ll put the past behind. However… the first stupid comment he makes will reset the clock back to post # 482!

Yes, I know him and he has been active before for the good of membership.

 

[roabilly]

Yes, I know him and he has been active before for the good of membership.

OK P. Rez,

Out of respect for you… I’ll grant Mr. Freedom one “Get out of jail free card”! From this point forward… I’ll assume that he will research and inquire before submitting arguments that are not based on fact, case history, or reality. The slate is clean… Mr. Freedom you are free to be Freedom!

One more relevant question concerning Freedom… is he relatively young and/or junior?

 

[necigrad]

neci i was on the iam web but i could not find the update for usairways where it says they would be talking i dont know if you can direct me there or not

PRez was right. I misread that, sorry. I would have SWORN that was a US update, but it's not.

 

[P. REZ]

OK P. Rez,

Out of respect for you… I’ll grant Mr. Freedom one “Get out of jail free card”! From this point forward… I’ll assume that he will research and inquire before submitting arguments that are not based on fact, case history, or reality. The slate is clean… Mr. Freedom you are free to be Freedom!

One more relevant question concerning Freedom… is he relatively young and/or junior?

Early 30's, topped out.

 

[roabilly]

Early 30's, topped out.

OK… I’ll give him credit for his youth/inexperience.

One thing that disturbs me is his incessant references to the cultural differences between the East and West. We attempted to heal those wounds years ago--there is no need to reference them now. Further, when DFW supersedes PHX this argument will be moot.

We are ALL in this together… so… I formally apologize for calling Freedom an idiot...

 

[Jester]

Jester,
My assumption is that you dont have a bunch of morons as leads so what gives? I mean as long as you work safe and do your job then whats the fuss?

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would become a lead in PHX, and I suspect the overwhelming majority of them do it to be FT for hours and benefits. I have spoken with dozens of leads, and maybe 3 of them actually like being a lead. I cannot recall the last time someone who was already FT ramp decided to become a FT lead, although there are some people who are lead qualified, but they do it just to relieve the boredom and serve as a reminder as to why they aren't accepting a full-time lead position. Plenty of PT people refuse to accept lead positions, while scrounging workbrain for extra hours.

While it is easy to say, "work safe," leads will be dragged into a Manager's office if flights consistantly go out late or they refuse cargo because some Manager thinks there was enough time to load the cargo, even when it is a ground turn and short-staffed. The leads just push themselves instead of relying upon the union to represent them during a write-up. It is a miserable position, and certainly not worth the extra $1/hour for pay, but it is about the full-time hours and lower health insurance costs.

Probably PRez would expound upon these issues regarding the leads, as I think he is lead qualified himself and certainly one of the PHX union representatives.

 

[ChockJockey]

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would become a lead in PHX, and I suspect the overwhelming majority of them do it to be FT for hours and benefits. I have spoken with dozens of leads, and maybe 3 of them actually like being a lead. I cannot recall the last time someone who was already FT ramp decided to become a FT lead, although there are some people who are lead qualified, but they do it just to relieve the boredom and serve as a reminder as to why they aren't accepting a full-time lead position. Plenty of PT people refuse to accept lead positions, while scrounging workbrain for extra hours. While it is easy to say, "work safe," leads will be dragged into a Manager's office if flights consistantly go out late or they refuse cargo because some Manager thinks there was enough time to load the cargo, even when it is a ground turn and short-staffed. The leads just push themselves instead of relying upon the union to represent them during a write-up. It is a miserable position, and certainly not worth the extra $1/hour for pay, but it is about the full-time hours and lower health insurance costs.

Exactly.

In PHX the lead is responsible or made directly accountable for more things than might leads at other stations so you're more highly scrutinized. For example, only leads have DECS logins, so they do all the load lookups and entries for the flights. Leads do the pushbacks almost 99% of the time. Also leads have to turn in certain paperwork during each shift. In my opinion the pay differential isn't worth the additional responsibility and work.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Wow, only leads have DECS? Really? Guarding state secrets? Everyone has DECS here and uses it,I dont depend on a Crew Chief to come and spoon feed me information.

Leads pushing? Heard about it, never actually seen it.Usually you'll end up with at least two push qualified guys on the gate.

You'll find AA Crew Chiefs are gone like fog in morning sunlight after the last bag goes on and the door closes.

 

[mike33]

Early 30's, topped out.

Ah, so he was of the 2$ - 5$ club at transition vote. No biggy, just clears the air a little and adds to the thing he " Knew". So it wasnt all about being misinformed. The aire is clear!

 

[P. REZ]

Ah, so he was of the 2$ - 5$ club at transition vote. No biggy, just clears the air a little and adds to the thing he " Knew". So it wasnt all about being misinformed. The aire is clear!

Mike33,

Back in 2008 85% of PHX employees were between 1-8 years of service. The pay for a 1 year employee was $8.40 per hour all the way up to $!0.51 per hour for an 8 year employee. Those employees are now between 6 and 13 years with respective pay of $15.70 and $20.57 per hour. Their raises since 2008 have gone up between $7.30 to $10.06 per hour. I understand why all of PHX looked at pay only in the last contract. AW pay sucked.

P. Rez

 

[cltrat]

Wow, only leads have DECS? Really? Guarding state secrets? Everyone has DECS here and uses it,I dont depend on a Crew Chief to come and spoon feed me information.

Leads pushing? Heard about it, never actually seen it.Usually you'll end up with at least two push qualified guys on the gate.

You'll find AA Crew Chiefs are gone like fog in morning sunlight after the last bag goes on and the door closes.

JFK here in CLT everyone has or should have DECS sign in and while leads do most of the pushbacks certainly not all of them.
I guess maybe it's the AW background but PHX seems to march to it's own beat on some of this things.

 

[mike33]

Mike33,

Back in 2008 85% of PHX employees were between 1-8 years of service. The pay for a 1 year employee was $8.40 per hour all the way up to $!0.51 per hour for an 8 year employee. Those employees are now between 6 and 13 years with respective pay of $15.70 and $20.57 per hour. Their raises since 2008 have gone up between $7.30 to $10.06 per hour. I understand why all of PHX looked at pay only in the last contract. AW pay sucked.

P. Rez

No argument there for sure..... it just puts the pieces together so we stay whole thru this negotiating process.

 

[P. REZ]

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would become a lead in PHX, and I suspect the overwhelming majority of them do it to be FT for hours and benefits. I have spoken with dozens of leads, and maybe 3 of them actually like being a lead. I cannot recall the last time someone who was already FT ramp decided to become a FT lead, although there are some people who are lead qualified, but they do it just to relieve the boredom and serve as a reminder as to why they aren't accepting a full-time lead position. Plenty of PT people refuse to accept lead positions, while scrounging workbrain for extra hours.

While it is easy to say, "work safe," leads will be dragged into a Manager's office if flights consistantly go out late or they refuse cargo because some Manager thinks there was enough time to load the cargo, even when it is a ground turn and short-staffed. The leads just push themselves instead of relying upon the union to represent them during a write-up. It is a miserable position, and certainly not worth the extra $1/hour for pay, but it is about the full-time hours and lower health insurance costs.

Probably PRez would expound upon these issues regarding the leads, as I think he is lead qualified himself and certainly one of the PHX union representatives.

Not a lead or qualified either. Staffing is the main problem for which I am addressing over the next month. When parttime employees leave in the morning and before they come in for the pm shift is the problem. I will be walking gate to gate on arrivals and departures and addressing with management right there on the spot and taking down flight information etc. and then going to the director with my findings. It is never ok to work without the proper staffing and I hope that PHX employees will get me or a shop steward involved when incurring staffing issues. I need everything from time, gate, flt #, a/c # etc. I need this information to go back to the management team to hammer this issue.

P. Rez