August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Im not sure the membership is complacent at all. Not sure what they can do other than stay professional and ratify or reject a ta.
I mean really. They sent in thousands of surveys when asked and will vote on a ta when asked. If the leadership wanted to informational picket then fine but the membership is paying their dues, doing their job, and ready to vote on a fair agreement whenever that is.
Things are fine with the membership, and the nc seems to be fine as well. This is just an ugly null time.

 

[freedom]

I disagree Tim , you get in what you put out , the bar needs to be raised higher ! People need a kick in the ass ....

 

[robbedagain]

freedom what other airline has a sick policy that is about as sick as the one we have? 50% first 3 days before on day 4 it reverts to full i do not know of any other airline that has that

 

[Tim Nelson]

I disagree Tim , you get in what you put out , the bar needs to be raised higher ! People need a kick in the ass ....

What do you want the membership to do? If you kick them in the ass, for what?
Their fine.they are working raising their families and expecting the iam to do the job it was hired to do. If the iam asks for assistance like informational picketing then fine but there isnt anything to kick them in the ass for.let the process play out. Let the nc educate. The decisions thus far have been positionally sound. Encourage members dont kick them down. There is coming a time, perhaps fairly soon where the leadership will need the members. Imo now isnt the time.

 

[Tim Nelson]

That's pretty much as I expect it too... few FT agents will be actually leaving because I have heard there are still a sizable number of LAS FT agents who were downgraded into PT positions, so they would have probably have higher seniority. Of course, there could be displaced FT agents who accepted FT positions elsewhere and of higher seniority than the aforementioned downgraded PT people who stayed. While without a doubt, there are people who don't trust Corporate not to furlough them again after returning to LAS, many have had enough of PHX Management and willing to take a chance. Someone told me there were around 150 former LAS agents in PHX, so 30 of them ready to make the change isn't a huge percentage, and who knows how many there are in other stations? I wouldn't expect those recalled positions to get below 13 years even for PT, based upon my discussions with some LAS guys.

jester, why are there never full time openings in phx? Is it due to leads displacing down to ft?
My question is, shouldnt that be awarded on a system bid? Ill have to look at the contract but i remember canale putting something in the contract that allows a drop into a local ft slot out of the local lead poll. Maybe prez can explain.

 

[freedom]

What do you want the membership to do? If you kick them in the ass, for what?
Their fine.they are working raising their families and expecting the iam to do the job it was hired to do. If the iam asks for assistance like informational picketing then fine but there isnt anything to kick them in the ass for.

Every one or us has a life outside of this job ,just because we have other obligations with our time is no excuse for some of the apathy that I have personally seen coming from some of our membership ...

Does Everyone need a kick , no , but there are a few who need a push ...I expect our union members to be willing to pur forth at least a minimum amount of effort to keep themselves informed...

Wr all know a slacker when it comes to the union ...someone uninvolved who has no idea whats going on and doesnt care ....

We hace to focus on getting them involved and making them care .

 

[P. REZ]

jester, why are there never full time openings in phx? Is it due to leads displacing down to ft?
My question is, shouldnt that be awarded on a system bid? Ill have to look at the contract but i remember canale putting something in the contract that allows a drop into a local ft slot out of the local lead poll. Maybe prez can explain.

Tim,

Roughly 10-15 Leads per year get demoted for cause and the turnover in FT Agent is roughly 10-15 per year, so per Art.8 B.4. the Leads demoted get demoted to FT Agent. A couple of months ago, about 10 FT openings occurred which allowed some transfers in.

P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Every one or us has a life outside of this job ,just because we have other obligations with our time is no excuse for some of the apathy that I have personally seen coming from some of our membership ...

Does Everyone need a kick , no , but there are a few who need a push ...I expect our union members to be willing to pur forth at least a minimum amount of effort to keep themselves informed...

Wr all know a slacker when it comes to the union ...someone uninvolved who has no idea whats going on and doesnt care ....

We hace to focus on getting them involved and making them care .

now i apprehend what you meant. I agree all should stay informed of the processes and strategies. Someone uninformed could conclude that the nc isnt doing its job because it has taken too long. Someone informed would realize that its alot longer to go if its goingto be done right. Im not sure ill be around in 5 years to wait out what will be sure to be a long drawn out transition agreement, so i myself feel ill be retiring on this present section 6 talks, so id like it to be done right. For everyones sake.
Front and center, we need to protect the tower, clp, and catering. Along with a commitment to all employees not to contract out their jobs. The merger should never be used to contract out anyones job.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Roughly 10-15 Leads per year get demoted for cause and the turnover in FT Agent is roughly 10-15 per year, so per Art.8 B.4. the Leads demoted get demoted to FT Agent. A couple of months ago, about 10 FT openings occurred which allowed some transfers in.

P. Rez

thats what i was thinking prez. Thanks for the clarity

 

[P. REZ]

neci i was on the iam web but i could not find the update for usairways where it says they would be talking i dont know if you can direct me there or not

Robbed,

The update on 141 refers to UA negotiations resuming. US negotiations don't have a concrete date yet, tentatively in July.

P. Rez

 

[robbedagain]

thanks p rez i was looking at the same thing i just thought may be the nmb would have had some kind of date set but thanks again

 

[Tim Nelson]

Does phx and clt have a gatorade vehicle that someone drives. Sorta like a golf course beverage cart?
Amr has that in ord at least with water fruit punch or gatorade.

 

[freedom]

Yes we do , in the past the people with certain OJI limitations would do it but now I guess we don't have enough injured so regular workers are assigned to it ....

Some people like the postion,others hate it .

 

[roabilly]

Roa,

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard an employee mis-state something about our contract, the RLA or anything to do with this job. However, I don't hammer on people that have bad information, I try to educate. People can and have changed their tune when given factual information. I've also learned the information can't be hammered down their throats and that just because you give someone correct information doesn't mean they believe you. If they don't believe me the first time, I try to tell them a different way. You are correct when you tell Freedom that you and many have tried to give him information but the fact is he and others don't believe everything they are told and calling them out doesn't help. Freedom is growing as a Union person and that is all we can hope for. Give him a chance.

P. Rez

OK P. Rez,

Before I even consider giving him a chance, can you confirm to me his in fact a FSA working in PHX? Do you know him? If you can personally vouch for him, I’ll put the past behind. However… the first stupid comment he makes will reset the clock back to post # 482!

 

[Jester]

jester, why are there never full time openings in phx? Is it due to leads displacing down to ft?
My question is, shouldnt that be awarded on a system bid? Ill have to look at the contract but i remember canale putting something in the contract that allows a drop into a local ft slot out of the local lead poll. Maybe prez can explain.

PRez pretty much has it right. There are openings maybe once a year for a handful of people, but large numbers of them come from outside of PHX as transferred or people whose station has closed as have "super seniority" meaning they can jump ahead of other people with higher seniority. We have a few of them now from ELP, as I understand it. I think the last PT in PHX who was promoted to FT was around 16 years, and the next in line just accepted a recall back to LAS as PT (he was a vocal character in his own right not to be overlooked in the N3 break room). There are easily 100 agents who would become FT if given the opportunity, but the only present way is to accept a lead position which is nearly all FT positions (except one person who is PT for some reason) and become fodder for Management abuse and write-ups. There are some leads who have deliberately gone to Level 3, in order to lose their lead qualifications and become full-time ramp instead. It is a risky tactic as they are one mistake from being terminated during the year that follows.