August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[700UW]

Secured everyone's job?

I guess you forgot about PIT res closing and central baggage services closing also.

Guess you forgot about Manila and San Salvador res centers and baggage claim being handled overseas?

Also the work came back to the US on their giveback date, but at 500 jobs less.

And scope, you can blame the PHL contingent during chapter 11 part 2 for that blunder.

Convenient you forgot about that.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Secured everyone's job?

I guess you forgot about PIT res closing and central baggage services closing also.

Guess you forgot about Manila and San Salvador res centers and baggage claim being handled overseas?

Also the work came back to the US on their giveback date, but at 500 jobs less.

And scope, you can blame the PHL contingent during chapter 11 part 2 for that blunder.

Convenient you forgot about that.

Convenient I forgot about what? Sorry, 700, I'm not going to take the blame off of the IAM and put it on PHL. The INTL and Richie Johnsen, and Canoli screwed our members on that one. Didn't they sign the transition agreement? It didn't help that some NC members decided to take vacations to Hawaii and have island drinks when Canale decided to finally sign the TA. I guess you still want to blame hurricane hugo as well and Hurricane Andrew for the IAM"s cruddy job under Canale.

And, no, I didn't forget about the previous res work being contracted out. It isn't now. Why can't you give credit for ALL RES WORK being brought in house because of a union that does its J.O.B.?

Can CWA force an airline to stop flying to a particular station? No, those are management decisions. But if a US AIRWAYS jet flies into a station then you can bet that there will be CWA members working it. The IAM should learn something from that and give the CWA some credit, instead of blaming the weather, economy, bankruptcy, etc. Other unions did far superior than the IAM in bankruptcy. The TWU did at AMR, and so did the CWA. Cripes, both of those bankrupt contracts are better than the IAM contract our members now have WHICH ISN"T EVEN A BANKRUPT CONTRACT. We are getting pimped. And the IAM is on its last leg in this industry if they bring back any more pimp contracts at US AIRWAYS or United. Even though IAM142 has done much better than the IAM141, even that IAM district has not listened to its members. I know you say that isn't true but the witness and evidence for it is that 63% signed cards for the IBT to fire the IAM. Let's see what happens but if the IAM pimps off another substandard TA at United and US AIRWAYS then I don't think our members are going to want to be around to sing more kumbuya to them.

For everyone's sake, I really hope the IAM doesn't botch this thing up again. They are saying all the right things and doing all the right things at US AIRWAYS....and I support it. But my support is measured since they also said all the right things and sang kumbuya really good before they dropped the hammer on them over at United.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

If MX keeps the IAM then I would think that both MX and fleet could get an industry leading contract if both groups stick together. Having all current US AIRWAYS jobs 'below the wing' is good. Could have been better if 40% of the jobs were not currently contracted out. Nonetheless, having both mx and ramp has leverage worth, assuming both groups work together in their fight for a leading industry contract. regards

 

[700UW]

Guess you dont know they lied to the furloughed members.

They told them the card they were signing was to update their information for the company, and the ibt even had the laid-off employees new employee #s that were issued in 2006.

That is confidential information, ever think of where the ibt got that info and all the addresses?

And the plan is for both districts to stick together and get cbas now and go into JCBA later.

 

[mike33]

The AA people who are gone , are gone , not signing the helping hands agreement will not bring anyone back as far as I know .

That's part of your problem.......You Don't Know! If you were talking to others about that ... How sad is that that there are more than 1 of your kind in a Conversation of that that should require some sort of PERMIT

 

[Tim Nelson]

Guess you dont know they lied to the furloughed members.

They told them the card they were signing was to update their information for the company, and the ibt even had the laid-off employees new employee #s that were issued in 2006.

That is confidential information, ever think of where the ibt got that info and all the addresses?

And the plan is for both districts to stick together and get cbas now and go into JCBA later.

700, you and the boys just don't listen. You just don't listen because you serve and worship the entity and don't admit to its many faults. I don't believe there is a conspiracy between the IBT and management. And I certainly know the mx that I know are bright enough for a mechanic to realize that the IBT card wasn't some sorta update for the company. Stop suggesting your members are dumb arses. You guys offended them when you said they were confused back in the day, and quit saying that they have no idea what they are signing when they sign a IBT card. I saw plenty of videos from disgruntled IAM MX to know that the IBT campaign was outfront and not behind cloth.

And you constantly blame the membership for everything. I want to show everyone your delusion by asking you a couple fairly simple questions.

Did the IAM leadership present a non bankrupt transition contract at fleet service that was inferior to the bankrupt CWA contract? and the TWU bankrupt AMR contract? Why did the TWU and CWA fair better in bankruptcy than the IAM did in bankruptcy and even post bankruptcy? [hint: the correct answer is Yes, Yes, and because the IAM did a lousy job]. That doesn't mean it has to stay that way. I have to have hope that the IAM and its leadership will change and quit supporting management and anti labor contracts.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Explain why the ibt lied and how they had information that is only in their personal records?

Tim the members have stated exactly what the ibt told them, my ex is helping on the campaign and that is what they are being told.

Have you talked to the furloughed members?

Have you gone door to door like the people are doing?

Once again, you are spreading misinformation.

 

[BLUTO]

been discussing stuff with people ...... I for one (and others )are in favor of us signing helping hands agreement as soon as possible ....

the reasons for this are complex .

dude if u rnt a mngr then
u must have used a lotta
mind candy yrs ago!
ur worryid bout mngmt jobs
n not helpn the co out w ther
abuse of fs werkers ur a pos!

 

[Tim Nelson]

700, doesnt that letter that the iam trustees put out bother you when there is no reason for them to blatantly come out and say the company doesnt have to keep contributing to the iam pension?
Those are your former coworkers.

U keep mentioning fleet and how the company stopped funding the iampf. If it did stop then it broke the contract and the iam enforced the contract.
Regarding the mx, there is no way out for the company or iampf trustees. The trustees approved the language so the iam has to continue upholding its end of the bargain unless it wants to break the contract and pay big bucks.

 

[necigrad]

Necigrad,
Usairways members do not get 1.5 pay when working a holiday. Double time does not start on the first day off until after 8 hours is worked on that day. If u r referring to second day off, then yes double time is paid after working 4 hours on first say off.
At any rate, the agcs are big on saying "but amr doesnt have a pension". Such subjective talk and any talk about investing or how the iampf is better than a 401k, has nothing to do with the cost for the company. The cost to the company is what it contributes, not what plan has more investing potential. Thus, as far as the cost to the company, 5% is 5% makes no difference if it goes into a 401 or pension. Anyone that says otherwise is simply being pilitical, ignorant, or being intellectually dishonest.

Tim, I never said anything about time and a half in regards to holidays. You said members get straight time for holidays worked. That is wrong. There is no way, with any interpretation, that members get straight time for hiolidays worked. ALL employees (assuming FT for simplicity) get eight hours of holiday pay. If they're not working they get eight hours. It's not straight time or double time, it's simply eight hours of pay. If you DO work, you get your hours worked plus eight hours. Since a majority of employeees work eight hours shifts that's eight hours of pay plus eight hours of holiday play. That's not straight time, that's DOUBLE time. If you work a ten hour shift you get a bit less then double.

You aiso said that we get a 401(k) match. WE DO NOT.

Look, I read your comparison, I didn't "fact check" it. I haven't looked at the compared contract. I found some errors and noted the correct statements about them. You can't do a comparion unless your information is fatually correct. You presented several interpretations that were incorrect. That's misleading. Now, on things like a pension, I would certianly say that you could say that we have a contribution to a pension instead of a 401(k). It's retirememnt, and should necessarily be forced to be only one type. You must specify that however. In addition, our IAMNPF isn't a percentage, it's a flat amount. It's not a percentage. If that were true then our pension contributions would be changing every year until topped out.

Facts, not interpretations, facts.

 

[700UW]

So Tim,

Why dont you call Steve Sleigh, since he is the pension person, works for the pension, yet you know better them him.

 

[roabilly]

Tim, I never said anything about time and a half in regards to holidays. You said members get straight time for holidays worked. That is wrong. There is no way, with any interpretation, that members get straight time for hiolidays worked. ALL employees (assuming FT for simplicity) get eight hours of holiday pay. If they're not working they get eight hours. It's not straight time or double time, it's simply eight hours of pay. If you DO work, you get your hours worked plus eight hours. Since a majority of employeees work eight hours shifts that's eight hours of pay plus eight hours of holiday play. That's not straight time, that's DOUBLE time. If you work a ten hour shift you get a bit less then double.

You aiso said that we get a 401(k) match. WE DO NOT.

Look, I read your comparison, I didn't "fact check" it. I haven't looked at the compared contract. I found some errors and noted the correct statements about them. You can't do a comparion unless your information is fatually correct. You presented several interpretations that were incorrect. That's misleading. Now, on things like a pension, I would certianly say that you could say that we have a contribution to a pension instead of a 401(k). It's retirememnt, and should necessarily be forced to be only one type. You must specify that however. In addition, our IAMNPF isn't a percentage, it's a flat amount. It's not a percentage. If that were true then our pension contributions would be changing every year until topped out.

Facts, not interpretations, facts.

One thing I learned about Nelson years ago… is that he has an uncanny ability to present what appears to be a well researched and factual argument. However, when one really starts to dissect what he is actually posting, you will find the following…

1) He omits very pertinent information if does not support his argument or agenda.
(Not really lying, but not providing the whole truth either)

2) He often provides numerical statistics that are either data mined, or incorrect.
(Not really lying, but being intellectually dishonest with ambiguity)

3) He often flat-out provides complete misinformation, and then refuses to accept the fact that he has been proven wrong with actual facts!
(Not really lying, because it’s true in his mind if he repeats it enough)

So in summery-- I see this pattern emerging again over the last few pages… it’s been that way for years… decades actually!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Necigrad,
As i said, all holidays worked is paid at straight time rates. There is no double time nor is there any 2.5 time at amr, but if you want to lump in holiday pay along with rate of pay for working hours and call that double time, then nothing is stopping you.
Nothing in my comparison is opinion nor can it be refuted. The facts are that the company is putting 5% into the retirement and 3% into pt. If you want to look at it as the base contribution, then fine but it is still currently 5% and 3%.
regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

700, i have no reason to call steve just like i have no reason to call roach for his letter 5 years ago saying that the defined benefit was guaranteed. Im just reminding folks that shop letters are not guarantees or contractual. Truth is that you never see such letters until politics is at play. No big deal 700, the mx are not so naive. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Roabily,
Did you read the comparisons?
Im not sure why you would have a problem with them.
You have to personally attack dont you?
The fact is that i dont have anything to do with the objective comparisons but you nonetheless want to engage your hate and politics into them.
You take what necigrad said that i said, which is poor reasoning.
Just because necigrad misread and claimed i said the company contributes into our 401 doesnt make it true. I never said that.

And im very sorry if necigrad wants to confuse premium pay rates on holidays, with holiday pay. Both are separate items. If folks dont understand that basic language and accuse me of being incorrect then i am not to be blamed.
Otoh, if i made an error then please do offer the correction. But your ongoing personal attacks against me do not further the discussion or add anything to the comparison. regards