August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[700UW]

No different than the UA T/A, and oh btw UA also laid off management personnel recently.

Josh

Actually it is quite different, the members voted it down, is that too hard to comprehend?

And the East warned the West what would happen.

You lose again joshie, as you are wrong, and you keep bringing up something that isnt relevant.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Josh,
I think the difference brtween the ratification at usair, as opposed to the one at united was the fairness of the vote.
Management allowed phx and other stations that were supportive of the ta to vote in the breakrooms. Ord was the only class two station that voted no. The only other no stations were tpa clt and phl.

 

[mike33]

Josh,
I think the difference brtween the ratification at usair, as opposed to the one at united was the fairness of the vote.
Management allowed phx and other stations that were supportive of the ta to vote in the breakrooms. Ord was the only class two station that voted no. The only other no stations were tpa clt and phl.

Thats because a number of the HP votes were getting anywhere from 2-5$ raises with the TA. It only made sense for Mgmt to swing the vote with circumstance for PHX

 

[Tim Nelson]

Thats because a number of the HP votes were getting anywhere from 2-5$ raises with the TA. It only made sense for Mgmt to swing the vote with circumstance for PHX

I fully understand.

 

[roabilly]

I personally would have a very hard time with helping hands. IMO it would take away leverage that we now have. One thing Parker has preached about is the synergies creditors will realize after the merger. That's something we have to use as leverage and prevent the synergies for fleet being realized until we get an agreement.

Charlie,

I agree… our stance should be to do nothing within our legal/contractual margins to augment any implementation of workgroup cooperation between the carriers (Helping Hands) until we hold a ratified agreement in our hands that is Industry Leading!

 

[necigrad]

Holiday rules
AMR: 5 holidays. Receive 1.5 pay rate for working on holiday
US AIRWAYS: 7 holidays, all at straight time if worked.

We get 8 hours of pay. If you work you get 8 (or 10) +8. PT get's I believe one shifts pay, based on how moany hours they normally work, but I'm not certain on that. It is NOT straight time if worked.

[quote name='Tim Nelson' timestamp='1371516993' post='1008222']Company retirement contributions
AMR: 5.5% for all employees in 401k
US AIRWAYS: Full Time: 5% Part time 3% [/quote]

US doens't kick in for 401(k)

[quote name='Tim Nelson' timestamp='1371516993' post='1008222']Current P/T %
AMR: 25%
US AIRWAYS: 35%[/quote]

Contractually it's 40%

[quote name='Tim Nelson' timestamp='1371516993' post='1008222']Overtime
AMR: Top rate is 1.5
US AIRWAYS: double time after 8 hours on first day off, and all hours on second day off if 4 hours OT were worked on first day off.
[/quote]

US is 1 1/2 for ALL COMPANY HOURS worked over 40. Double time only kicks in after 40 hours worked and four hours on the employees first RDO.

During the merge between US and AW, the unions agreed to "helping hands" which permitted fleet service agents from both sides to work upon the metal of the other even if the stations were handled by both companies fleet agent agents. The rumor we continue to hear in PHX is that US FSAs will be handling AA aircraft, for which AA contracted to an outside vendor during the bankruptcy process. This is an issue I raised a couple months ago on this board, as we would be forced to perform the work of AA FSAs which deserves to be handled by those furloughed AA agents. I think the excuse for "helping hands" was during irregular operations, but it ended-up being used for normal operations in some stations.

Yup, that's about it. Here in LAS 'Helping hands' meant when East ops didn't go perfectly (and they never did) the East guys went home and the West guys did the work. I cannot think of ONE instance where East helped West with that. FWIW BTW that is NOT hate towards any East employees. They did exactly what they were supposed to. Management walked all over us and the union let them.

 

[freedom]

been discussing stuff with people ...... I for one (and others )are in favor of us signing helping hands agreement as soon as possible ....

the reasons for this are complex .

 

[wings396]

Tim, I disagree with you on the sick policy comparison. You failed to mention that you do get full pay at US if you have 100+ days in the books. Accrual at AA for half the amount of days at full rate is counterproductive. Sure at AA you may get full pay, but overall you will have less time accrued.

 

[robbedagain]

been discussing stuff with people ...... I for one (and others )are in favor of us signing helping hands agreement as soon as possible ....

the reasons for this are complex .

typical you would say that freedom.. if those aa folks have recall rights then they should be recalled and be able to work their own metal you sure play right into mgmt hands but they sure dont give a care about you

 

[freedom]

The AA people who are gone , are gone , not signing the helping hands agreement will not bring anyone back as far as I know .

 

[700UW]

been discussing stuff with people ...... I for one (and others )are in favor of us signing helping hands agreement as soon as possible ....

the reasons for this are complex .

Well you would be, you threw your fellow US Airways employees to the curb, and now you want to kick the laid-off AA ramp when they are down.

And you claim to be a unionist?

Your far from it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Necigrad,
Usairways members do not get 1.5 pay when working a holiday. Double time does not start on the first day off until after 8 hours is worked on that day. If u r referring to second day off, then yes double time is paid after working 4 hours on first say off.
At any rate, the agcs are big on saying "but amr doesnt have a pension". Such subjective talk and any talk about investing or how the iampf is better than a 401k, has nothing to do with the cost for the company. The cost to the company is what it contributes, not what plan has more investing potential. Thus, as far as the cost to the company, 5% is 5% makes no difference if it goes into a 401 or pension. Anyone that says otherwise is simply being pilitical, ignorant, or being intellectually dishonest.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, I disagree with you on the sick policy comparison. You failed to mention that you do get full pay at US if you have 100+ days in the books. Accrual at AA for half the amount of days at full rate is counterproductive. Sure at AA you may get full pay, but overall you will have less time accrued.

I hear ya wings. I won't even argue about it since I think both policies suck. Folks at AMR will burn through their accruals fairly quick if they go out on fmla. At any rate it sucks getting tagged for half pay so that is something that definitely has to be fixed in this round of negotiations. Our members sacrificed full sick pay to help the company in bankruptcy, management needs to stop sticking it to them and acting like our members are the enemy and dogs. US AIRWAYS is not in bankruptcy and made more money than Southwest Airlines last year. BTW, Southwest has the best scope in the industry and maybe US AIRWAYS management ought to start treating their employees like a team and commit to them. Seems to work at Southwest pretty good as they have led the industry in customer satisfaction and baggage. Our NC should be asking for things similar to Southwest. My assumption is that they are. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Comparison with US AIRWAYS Customer Service Agents

Scope
Fleet: only 10 class 1 stations [minimum of 20 flights per day]. Other work can be contracted out if.
Passenger Service: 20+ class one stations [minimum of 12 flights a day]. Class 2 stations are also within full scope and staffed with CWA. All Class 2 stations that drop to only 2 mainline flights a day revert to 'mainline express'. They are still covered by CWA but the pay rate changes.

Wages
CWA: $21.14
IAM: $20.57

Shift Pay
CWA: .51 cents
IAM: 0

Lead pay
CWA: .35 cents [need to double check but I think this is what it was]
IAM: $1.01

Longevity/customer service premium:
CWA: .30
IAM: 0

Profit sharing
CWA: Yes
IAM: No

Holidays
CWA: 10
IAM: 7

Sick days and payment
CWA: 12. All paid at full pay if call in sick
IAM: 9. All paid at half pay for first 3 days

Vacation
CWA: 5 weeks
IAM: 4 Weeks

Retirement
CWA: Company pays 3% of all hours and premiums [regular hours, overtime hours, shift premium, etc] into 401k
IAM: Company pays 5% for full timers for all regular hours into IAM pension. PT is only 3%.

Overtime
CWA: Double time for work on holidays
IAM: Double time for anything past 8 hours on first day off, and all hours worked on second day off if 4 hours OT on first day off.

Discussion
Both departments received the same pay and benefits when they were non union. The fleet went IAM in 1994. Passenger service went CWA in 1999. Since then, the CWA has done a far superior job, BIGTIME, than the IAM.
The biggest thing that chaps my arse is the scope. I'm just shocked how the IAM coughed up jobs and didn't bargain effectively to save the express stations. 82 stations going into representation with the IAM and only 20 east stations left. I hope that our NC has researched and put forth 'property' [hint CWA] comparisons to the company regarding scope and the progressive thinking of mainline express once again. At any rate, our NC not look any further than right here on this property to see how the company has recognized much better scope for CWA members. I expect no less from the IAM, along with a grandfathering of all currently staffed IAM stations. This company is making money hands over fist and projected over $4 billion net profits in 2015 to the stockholders. This industry has changed, it is no longer in bankruptcy and this company has a revenue source of an additional $2 billion a year in a la carte fees that did not exist in this industry in the bankrupt years. It's time that our union leadership hold the line and STOP IT! Stop the insanity of agreeing to dopey ignorant TA"s in IAM141. Stop the insanity of saying that transition talks will be where it is at! STOP IT! regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Fleet service needs to be bigtime NORTH of the wages and benefits of customer service. That customer service agreement is a bankrupt contract, yet, they secured everyone's job with work protections and progressive thinking. They had the integrity to not sign any bankrupt agreement without snap backs. If the CWA could get all of the above [it isn't much but a helluva lot more than the IAM and Canale's crappy job], then we should expect far greater from the IAM in this round of talks. BTW, the CWA is also in talks but their talks will be stalled due to not knowing if they will even be around since AMR PAX service workers are non union. My biggest gripe of all gripes is how the IAM has absolutely sucked at securing scope. It's total Bull. And these new guys we installed did a lousy job at HAL and United by raping even more scope. Thankfully, the United workers shut down that anti labor ta, and my hope is that if these clowns try the same thing at US AIRWAYS that our members shut that crap down as well. Gotta have some real scope fellas, none of this insulting BS 'drop dead' scope. C'mon maaaaaannnnnnn! I have better things to do than jumping on my soapbox over the last 15 years screaming about scope! regards,