August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[charlie Brown]

Double time pay rates and holiday pay are two entirely different items. Maybe cb would clarify this for everyone. When u get ur stubs for july 4, see if the company decided to pay any of you double time for hours worked. Pay rates are akin to hours worked. Holiday pay is paid whether you work or not

You have it right! Holiday pay is paid whether you work it or not at straight time rate. Here's what's crazy to throw another one at everyone. You call out sick on a holiday. You get holiday pay at straight time rate, but you get no sick pay( not even half pay) but it still is a point for calling out.

 

[Tim Nelson]

This conyract is going to be huge as it will either further the craft, or it could reduce it by not increasing the scope with the current leverage. I am quite guarded with this leadership as it has said all the same things that previous nc with this leadership has said. Talk is cheap...get it in writing! Ill stick with this nc if they do the right thing, if not i will absolutely pound them in the breakroom or wherever i see them over a sellout. Im coming to clt or phl sure enuf so ill either be standing with them against corporate greed or pointing them out if they fold and hose the members like they tried at united and hal.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ot: so another emergency landing with a dreamliner. Is this built in the south carolina plant?

 

[roabilly]

Roabily,
Did you read the comparisons?
Im not sure why you would have a problem with them.
You have to personally attack dont you?
The fact is that i dont have anything to do with the objective comparisons but you nonetheless want to engage your hate and politics into them.
You take what necigrad said that i said, which is poor reasoning.
Just because necigrad misread and claimed i said the company contributes into our 401 doesnt make it true. I never said that.

And im very sorry if necigrad wants to confuse premium pay rates on holidays, with holiday pay. Both are separate items. If folks dont understand that basic language and accuse me of being incorrect then i am not to be blamed.
Otoh, if i made an error then please do offer the correction. But your ongoing personal attacks against me do not further the discussion or add anything to the comparison. regards

Nelson,

This was not a personal attack, just an objective observation. CB and Grad both showed where you were attempting to spin information. As far as me being political, how could that be? I’m not running for any position, I do not hold a position, and I probably won’t be around when we finally get an agreement!

As Grad said… the facts are the facts… NOT your interpretation of them cleverly worded to make the union appear feeble!

One last thing, I don’t hate you, or even care if you think I hate you! It’s all irrelevant in the grand scheme of things!

 

[necigrad]

Roa, what's really funny about that is that I didn't quote mine as he suggests. I took every single relevant line. I also didn't 'say' Tim said it, I quoted him directly. That post links DIRECTLY to the post where he said it, thus proving that he said it. I dind't even type in what he said, I let the computer do it. But of course I'm only SAYING Tim said it, because somehow Tim didnt' say it.

I'm all for us. The workgroup. Time put forth some time and effort, presumably completly on his own and I'd bet without any suggestion from someone for him to do so. I think it's great. I don't see the relevance to it AT THIS TIME, but I still think it's great that he did it nonetheless. He made a few statements that were (at best) less then accurate. He made some errors. Big deal, there is not one person here who doesn't. Yet for some reason he feels threatened. Tim, I'm not gunning for anything that you have a need to feel threatened about. I will put my corrections up seven days a week against your analysis and the contract. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I'm cool with that. Are you?

 

[Kev3188]

Kev, at the very minimum, no current employee should have his job contracted out. At nw, you guys at least had the rj station grandfather clause that grandfathered all employees at their express station.

Correct.

Even the CBA crafted during BK had lower thresholds (and E75's counted toward the flight count) than either US' or AA's. More stations explicitly protected and no "drop dead" dates as well...

It can be done; your NC just needs to make- and keep- it a top priority.

 

[roabilly]

Roa, what's really funny about that is that I didn't quote mine as he suggests. I took every single relevant line. I also didn't 'say' Tim said it, I quoted him directly. That post links DIRECTLY to the post where he said it, thus proving that he said it. I dind't even type in what he said, I let the computer do it. But of course I'm only SAYING Tim said it, because somehow Tim didnt' say it.

I'm all for us. The workgroup. Time put forth some time and effort, presumably completly on his own and I'd bet without any suggestion from someone for him to do so. I think it's great. I don't see the relevance to it AT THIS TIME, but I still think it's great that he did it nonetheless. He made a few statements that were (at best) less then accurate. He made some errors. Big deal, there is not one person here who doesn't. Yet for some reason he feels threatened. Tim, I'm not gunning for anything that you have a need to feel threatened about. I will put my corrections up seven days a week against your analysis and the contract. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I'm cool with that. Are you?

Grad,

He (Nelson) feels threatened because he expects entire legions of workers to blindly follow his ideology. He is very good at convincing folks that he’s on to the “real’ truth, which is actually only “his” truth! His perception of his reality… not mine, not yours, and certainly not the workgroup’s!

If we just accept what he says as the gospel without fact checking and dissection, we will be duped into making poor choices. Poor choices that will result in detriment! Thank you for taking the time to fact check his posts. Most F/S workers either don’t take the time, or don’t have the wherewithal to do what you did.

Again thanks!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Kev
Our negotiating team is in even better shape than when your nc secured 40 stations and 10 cargo centers in bk.
I fully expect all stations to be protected and no dopey drop dead dates in the ta. If they cant get that then they should hold firm.

 

[mike33]

CB

Or anyone really. Is TPA on the VISIT list do you know?

 

[robbedagain]

cb p rez or any can you give the dates for cities including hubs again and secondly when you go to dca given that bwi is 32 miles are you going to do a trip for dca and bwi around that time frame

 

[700UW]

I just heard some interesting news, seems Tim is being untruthful again.

Atkinson ran the Ramp and PCE campaign at UA and Nelson is taking credit for UA, and Tim was sent to AirTran and the only reason the IAM won at AirTran was because of Southwest buying AirTran and those workers didnt want to get screwed in the merger.

And the CO side was run by Grand Lodge.

Now I see why you were able to take a cruise during the last week of the most important campaign in a long time, since you werent involved, but yet you claim to be.

 

[Tim Nelson]

A city list would be good. Especially as many of us have summer vacations and would like to prepare.

 

[robbedagain]

i had heard that the fl folks did not want to get screwed over in their merger with wn and that was why they went iam... it sure is amazing how someone takes credit for something they partially had a hand in

 

[Tim Nelson]

I just heard some interesting news, seems Tim is being untruthful again.

Atkinson ran the Ramp and PCE campaign at UA and Nelson is taking credit for UA, and Tim was sent to AirTran and the only reason the IAM won at AirTran was because of Southwest buying AirTran and those workers didnt want to get screwed in the merger.

And the CO side was run by Grand Lodge.

Now I see why you were able to take a cruise during the last week of the most important campaign in a long time, since you werent involved, but yet you claim to be.

Lol. Hey, I don't care who you say scored the TD's or fumbled the ball. Whatever. The campaigns were successful and that's all that mattered, thanks to the actual employees at each carrier. I'm not concerned with how we won or by how much, just like a sports team doesn't have to be concerned after they win the game.

What did concern me was the losses that I wasn't a part of. The IAM couldn't win a campaign for 10 years. I put together a plan to be a part of the stew campaign at Continental and the Delta campaigns, but the IAM rejected them and proceeded to lose 35,000 members. I tried to convince Ira that his campaign to "Leave ORD alone" was faulty since there were 4,000 AFA members but he just didn't listen and he got our arse handed to us.

I tried to convince Tommy Reagan that he should change his DL campaign but he blew that campaign up and just didn't listen. I still can hear him saying 'we got the ramp in the bag' but customer service will be tough. His flight simulator campaign was another disaster. Tommy's plan was to use the GLR's and AGC's and blitz ATL and I warned him against it. He just didn't listen. He's a nice guy but once he gets his laptop out and pulls out all of his charts he gets mesmerized. He does the same thing in negotiations. He starts believing some really dopey things. The AGC's were giving great reports every Friday after they intoxicated themselves throughout the week at the Irish pub on Virginia avenue. Tommy was even concerned about that but he continued to believe their reports. But they agreed to leave MSP alone for the most part and just circled all of those members as yes votes. When Tommy didn't handle Gordon's blow up over some money that was suppose to be won over some grievance award, but instead tried to bull crap and buy time, IMO, many in MSP ended up getting resentful and abstained from voting. Maybe not, I can't tell, but that's my opinion.

At any rate, let's see if they can win the US AIRWAYS MX. If the IBT wins, then wins at AMR MX, then I think the IAM's days at United are numbered because the IBT notified 'key people' that after its MX campaigns at AMR/US, that it wants everything below the wing at United next and plans on doing a quick campaign there to boot the IAM. US AIRWAYS ramp will stay 'association'. Hoffa will dump millions at United if he can get on a monster wave of victories at AMR/US. Captain Bourne will be able to call whatever organizing campaign he wants if that is the case. If there is a vote at United ramp, then I honestly can't see the IAM getting more than 10% of the vote this time.

OTOH, if the IBT Loses USAIRWAYS MX and AMR MX, then I think the IBT will regress, fire some people, and stay away. Time will tell. But if that's the case, then the IAM will have new life and really need to focus on representing folks fairly instead of Blo&^% management.

regards,

 

[ograc]

Now is the time for your NC to be crafting extremely solid scope language that covers all kinds of airframe types, flying, etc.

Low thresholds, and long lists of types that count toward it should be key... I'd start with "anything with a jet engine(s)" and go from there.




**YES**

Kev 3188,
Much needed improvements in scope language is indeed the key. Protecting the work currently being done by represented Fleet Service members should be paramount in US Fleet Service contract negotiations by our NC. It is an issue that should be seen as a foundation block to further improvements for the group. It's an issue that needs dramatic improvement. It's an issue that, based on the current language in the CBA, has cost the countless loss of represented jobs. Stop the bleeding; Start the healing! Protect the work first and foremost.