August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[ChockJockey]

I am going to respectfully disagree with you on this matter, CJ. Personally, I have never seen such general managerial incompetency as within PHX. They cannot get bids right (remember last one... Did you also like the post-bid additional flex schedule to the first week of July?) They VTO people from shifts which leaves the ramp short-handed a few hours later. They issue transition assignments which are devoid of reality from the flight actual flight schedules. And forget any ability to lead or manage the ramp agents during any unexpected deviations to operations! The AA merger might provide a convenient excuse to clean PHX house.

Indeed. I don't disagree at all. I suppose I was speaking towards the several individuals that would have to re-apply/re-interview as managers to keep their jobs, as opposed to the aggregate performance of ramp management overall. Theirs is an ethos of, "if it barely works, don't fix it"; there is an entrenched, structural paranoia towards process/operational changes or improvements even if they are obviously necessary, and automatic suspicion of anyone who doesn't tow the line.

Managers, especially those on the lower echelons seem to have little leeway or discretion in most matters, and this suits their superiors who want them, like us, to do the job without thought or question. I suppose it's nothing if not authoritarian, but it leads to many absurdities. So yes, this merger might be an opportunity for a house cleaning that should have been done two airlines ago.

 

[Harry Callahan]

I hate to see any one loose a job, but Charlotte sure has a bunch of worthless ones.

Harry

 

[necigrad]

Freedom, if memory serves me well, the same thing happened with the HP/US merger. It's not a big deal. If the managers are competant they'll still be around, if not they deserved to lose their job. Then again, that's part of why we have a union. I know first hand of some craptastic rampers that still have their jobs only because of it. Lot's of good ones too.

 

[ograc]

"The IAM’s position is the US Airways must complete its bargaining responsibilities with the IAM before joint negotiations can begin."

that is the single most critical piece, imo, of the association agreement, i.e., recognizing the sanctity of the current section 6 talks. If the association agreement didn't exist, then the current talks would have blown up.

regards,

I agree it is the single most critical piece of the association agreement. Hopefully, It provides the leverage needed, to achieve a ratified contract for US Fleet with long overdue improvements to wages, benefits and working conditions prior to entering into talks for another watered down "transition agreement". Let's not forget, brothers and sisters, we at US Fleet, have been put through the ringer twice through forced bankruptcy agreements and once through a "transition agreement". End result; concessionary agreements since the original 1999 contract. Enough is enough! IMO...Section 6 for as long as it takes! Then we'll consider transition talks. Helping hands agreements in the meantime? Really? Given the posture of US in negotiations. Let me think about that. Pause... NO!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Not sure why some AGC"s are saying the US AIRWAYS contract is better than the sucky AMR Bankrupt contract but an objective comparison is below:

ALL FIGURES ARE FOR TOPPED OUT EMPLOYEES

2013 base wage rates:
AMR $22.53 US AIRWAYS $20.57

Lead Pay
AMR: $1.50 plus progression or up to $24.62
US AIRWAYS: $1.01 or up to $21.58

Longevity pay:
AMR: .30 cents
US AIRWAYS: 0

Vacation
AMR: 5 Weeks
US AIRWAYS: 4 weeks

Holiday rules
AMR: 5 holidays. Receive 1.5 pay rate for working on holiday
US AIRWAYS: 7 holidays, all at straight time if worked.

Company retirement contributions
AMR: 5.5% for all employees in 401k
US AIRWAYS: Full Time: 5% Part time 3%

Sick Leave Accruals and Payment
AMR: 5 sick days per year. But get paid for your full shift
US AIRWAYS: 9 sick days per year. Get paid half for first 3 days each occurrence.

Current P/T %
AMR: 25%
US AIRWAYS: 35%

Scope [work protections]
AMR: Full station protections at 15 flights per day. Future stations get protections if they get to 20 flights per day. Currently, 17 stations protected, 5 cargo centers.

US AIRWAYS: Full station protections at 20 flights per day if class 1. Future stations gain class 1 status if they go to 25 flights per day. Currently, 10 class 1 stations in addition to two catering centers, 3 cargo centers, and tower work as well.

Recall:
AMR: 10 years
US AIRWAYS: 4 years

Health Benefits
Depending on plans and deductions. But AMR full timers pay more for health care than US AIRWAYS full timers. However, AMR part timers rates are not doubled as they are at US AIRWAYS.

Overtime
AMR: Top rate is 1.5
US AIRWAYS: double time after 8 hours on first day off, and all hours on second day off if 4 hours OT were worked on first day off.

Discussion
Wage and total compensation is a strong AMR advantage, along with recall, P/t %, and vacation time. Some things are 'too close to call' and a matter of style. For instance, US AIRWAYS gets two more holidays but the AMR holidays are paid at 1.5 if worked. So, if you work each holiday at AMR, the total compensation is greater at AMR.

I like the sick time at AMR better. U accrue more at US AIRWAYS but the payment sucks at half pay. I'd rather get full pay and not lose money. Can't use many sick days anyways or you get in trouble.

Health care I give the advantage to US AIRWAYS. Part timers may have something to say about that though.

Retirement is a wash as far as how much money it cost the companies. I prefer having greater control so I like the 401k but it's a matter of personal preference. Either way, it's basically the same money going in.

I give the scope a wash. Flight activity measurements is better at AMR and they have 5 big cargo centers. US AIRWAYS only has 10 class 1 stations with all others subject to contracting out provisions BUT the towers and catering work protections are golden.

At any rate, not in any case do I think we should be using the bankrupt AMR contract as a baseline. The Association signed that it recognizes the section 6 contract negotiations and will not proceed with a joint contract until the US AIRWAYS members ratify one first [it's in the association agreement]. That means clear sailing and negotiating free from the interference of any raids or sidesteps. Attaining a ta well NORTH of the AMR contract is fair.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

I agree it is the single most critical piece of the association agreement. Hopefully, It provides the leverage needed, to achieve a ratified contract for US Fleet with long overdue improvements to wages, benefits and working conditions prior to entering into talks for another watered down "transition agreement". Let's not forget, brothers and sisters, we at US Fleet, have been put through the ringer twice through forced bankruptcy agreements and once through a "transition agreement". End result; concessionary agreements since the original 1999 contract. Enough is enough! IMO...Section 6 for as long as it takes! Then we'll consider transition talks. Helping hands agreements in the meantime? Really? Given the posture of US in negotiations. Let me think about that. Pause... NO!

also of note, the MOU 'fence agreement' was only triggered if the TWU was the certified bargainer. We now know that the association will be the certified bargainer so there won't be any 'forced' fence agreement forthcoming.

regards,

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

it just seems insulting to make the workers of the company that is NOT in BK re-apply for their jobs ...

Are you reapplying for your job? Why are you shedding tears for management?

 

[mike33]

No Contract?.......No helping hands... zero.. Nada ! No Bullshit !

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

No Contract?.......No helping hands... zero.. Nada ! No Bullshit !

What is this helping hands crap you people are losing your minds about?

 

[Jester]

What is this helping hands crap you people are losing your minds about?

During the merge between US and AW, the unions agreed to "helping hands" which permitted fleet service agents from both sides to work upon the metal of the other even if the stations were handled by both companies fleet agent agents. The rumor we continue to hear in PHX is that US FSAs will be handling AA aircraft, for which AA contracted to an outside vendor during the bankruptcy process. This is an issue I raised a couple months ago on this board, as we would be forced to perform the work of AA FSAs which deserves to be handled by those furloughed AA agents. I think the excuse for "helping hands" was during irregular operations, but it ended-up being used for normal operations in some stations.

 

[700UW]

Freedom,

You didnt care about your brothers and sisters when you voted for the money and laid them off, and yet you have the audacity to post about management losing jobs.

You are a piece of work.

 

[737823]

Freedom,

You didnt care about your brothers and sisters when you voted for the money and laid them off, and yet you have the audacity to post about management losing jobs.

You are a piece of work.

No different than the UA T/A, and oh btw UA also laid off management personnel recently.

Josh

 

[charlie Brown]

During the merge between US and AW, the unions agreed to "helping hands" which permitted fleet service agents from both sides to work upon the metal of the other even if the stations were handled by both companies fleet agent agents. The rumor we continue to hear in PHX is that US FSAs will be handling AA aircraft, for which AA contracted to an outside vendor during the bankruptcy process. This is an issue I raised a couple months ago on this board, as we would be forced to perform the work of AA FSAs which deserves to be handled by those furloughed AA agents. I think the excuse for "helping hands" was during irregular operations, but it ended-up being used for normal operations in some stations.

I personally would have a very hard time with helping hands. IMO it would take away leverage that we now have. One thing Parker has preached about is the synergies creditors will realize after the merger. That's something we have to use as leverage and prevent the synergies for fleet being realized until we get an agreement.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Helping hands are also spoken of in article 6....its called overtime!lol

But oftentimes helping hands is also called a fence agreement. The company will need one bad. Thats why parker signed the mou that required the twu to enter negotiations over a fence agreement 30 days after the merger. That good thing is that requirement was conditioned upon the twu,exclusively, being certified after a representational dispute. We now know that the twu will not be certified by the nmb.