Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[DallasConehead]

Truer words were never spoken, well put informer, succinct and to the point. I have always thought that if the membership wants a vote and can show there is interest in a vote, then it should happen. Outcome good or bad, it is the democratic way.

 

[swamt]

Great post Informer.  And I agree.  However, I would like to add, with the industrial unions or at least teamsters and TWU,  sometimes it is not the membership to be blamed.  When deals are cut behind closed doors, and the international officers or a president of the union pull some kind of rank and power and override a vote to change the final out come.  This has been done and will continue to be done by both the teamsters (personal experience at SWA) and the TWU at AA,  I even think the IAM has done it over at US but I do not know for fact, the other 2 I do.   When these behind close door deals are done,  and international officers can change results of votes, and other actions I do in fact blame the union representing.  Kind of hard to blame the membership when the power can be removed from them, with AMFA that will not happen, and yes blame the membership at AMFA represented carriers.  

 

[Overspeed]

Overspun give it up already, your song has played its last dance
It is a known fact amongst the industry that the twu has undercut everybody in every so called negotiations. There is plenty of fully documented proof and due to their willingness to give the company everything they wanted and more they very effectively handcuffed negotiations for everyone else. Go ask how negotiations are going with the us air mechanics.the company is using the twu contract against their negotiations! Something to be proud of. Have us air call hewitt and he can explain how great ouf contract is or better yet why dont you call them and since you think it so great too.
The past anx current twu contracts and their ability to assist the company outside the contract
With programs like jlt and pli is clear to all not just me that the twu has failed and is the indusyry leading concessionary union that is undisputed in the industry. Dont take just my word for it ask around and you will hear what I speak about from others.
Your voice overpsun is mute and you can not despite how hard you try, deflect the complete failure of the twu in representing our class and craft over the years.
you never answered my original questionsome time ago
explain to everyone in detail the great accomplishments of the twu,just start with #1 and keep going. Should be easy for a proud twu supporterlike yourself.
ready set go......... do not post until you answer the questjon, we will wait for your re
response.

 
Asked and answered

 

[Chuck Schalk]

 
Asked and answered

finally you are in agreement me the TWU has failed.
 
more like asked and deflected again

 

[Overspeed]

finally you are in agreement me the TWU has failed.
 
more like asked and deflected again

 
Ok Chuck, I have already proven that given the same circumstances AMFA has failed their members miserably. Like was said we have both made good arguments as to which union sucks the most. I feel that both all labor has been hit hard. The problem is AMFA has "fought" and lost 80% of their members' jobs to low wage MROs.

 

[dfw gen]

 
Ok Chuck, I have already proven that given the same circumstances AMFA has failed their members miserably. Like was said we have both made good arguments as to which union sucks the most. I feel that both all labor has been hit hard. The problem is AMFA has "fought" and lost 80% of their members' jobs to low wage MROs.

while the twu tried to emulate the mro pay and benefits!

 

[MetalMover]

 
Ok Chuck, I have already proven that given the same circumstances AMFA has failed their members miserably. Like was said we have both made good arguments as to which union sucks the most. I feel that both all labor has been hit hard. The problem is AMFA has "fought" and lost 80% of their members' jobs to low wage MROs.

Once again...What is the current headcount of TULE? Status of AFW and MCI?
What is the current Title 1 headcount compared to what it was years ago? 
 
A simple reply will do, Overspeed.

 

[1AA]

As long as the TWU is on the property nothing will improve for us. The TWU agreed to this vague language that is left open for interpretation. We need a union that is accountable for the members it represents and can look at the weak language we have and try to improve or change it for the better. The TWU is NOT that union because they wrote it and appear to be satisfied with it regardless of the objections from the dues paying members.

 

[Overspeed]

Once again...What is the current headcount of TULE? Status of AFW and MCI?
What is the current Title 1 headcount compared to what it was years ago? 
 
A simple reply will do, Overspeed.

 
What was the current headcount at MSP NW and system wide at the date of the merger? Zero at MSP overhaul and 800 AMTs system wide. What is the current headcount at OAK AS? Zero.
 
Line MX is at the same level at AA that is was proportionally since 2003. All of AA headcount is almost double what is the industry standard per aircraft. Not taking in to account that a shrinking airline has fewer people is just plain stupid.

 

[Overspeed]

while the twu tried to emulate the mro pay and benefits!

 
From NPR article. You make way more than MRO wages.
 
With just his sheet metal training, Hendricks started at AAR making $12 an hour. But after five years he's already up to $21, because five years of working on airplanes has taught him a lot. "Unlike assembly line work, it's a team effort," he says. "Just knowing that I'm able to work on the plane and do the job well is satisfying."

 

[MetalMover]

 
What was the current headcount at MSP NW and system wide at the date of the merger? Zero at MSP overhaul and 800 AMTs system wide. What is the current headcount at OAK AS? Zero.
 
Line MX is at the same level at AA that is was proportionally since 2003. All of AA headcount is almost double what is the industry standard per aircraft. Not taking in to account that a shrinking airline has fewer people is just plain stupid.

Nice spin but try again. So never mind our ranks shrunk by well over 4000 mechanics...But you're making a big deal over NW losing 800 AMT's???????
According to you it's ok because we have MORE than the industry standard!

 

[Rogallo]

Nice spin but try again. So never mind our ranks shrunk by well over 4000 mechanics...But you're making a big deal over NW losing 800 AMT's???????
According to you it's ok because we have MORE than the industry standard!

 
It's all he's got!
 
I still can't figure out which one sucks the least!

 

[scorpion 2]

 
What was the current headcount at MSP NW and system wide at the date of the merger? Zero at MSP overhaul and 800 AMTs system wide. What is the current headcount at OAK AS? Zero.
 
Line MX is at the same level at AA that is was proportionally since 2003. All of AA headcount is almost double what is the industry standard per aircraft. Not taking in to account that a shrinking airline has fewer people is just plain stupid.

Ok.  Now tell us what all of M+R was in 2003 and what that number is now. Spinning line maintenance numbers but leaving out overhaul shows you have to choose your arguments carefully.     

 

[Chuck Schalk]

overspun you keep spinning the same thing and repackaging it and spinning some more.  the NWA strike was explained and AMFA was forced into a strike. If AMFA supported the NWA contract proposal they would have supported the NWA proposal of getting rid of 50% of their members.  They had no choice but to strike and the members voted 92% to strike. 
the TWU on the other hand has supported and pushed vote "YES" concessionary contracts which lost jobs, pay, work rules,system protection,medical for life, supplemental medical,closed AFWand MCI bases, 
tulsa labor loan gone, work sent overseas, cut title 2 in half, cabin service gone, soon to be gone goldhpfering aircraft..........i will stop here as I am getting depressed.
 
again, I ask and please do not deflect.
 
as a great supporter of the TWU give us the great accomplishments of the TWU over the last 20 years.
please just start with #1 and so on......that is all we want
 
It is simple,   just start writing so maybe I can understand how the great TWU has done for our class and craft at AA?
 
I just want an answer......start typing and support your claim of the TWU.
 
Can you do that?

 

[swamt]

NO, he cannot Chuck, and he knows it.  BTW Chuck, do you or anyone else know what the total number of aircraft mechanics at AA is?  If so please post.  At one time I believe your ranks were at a high of 18,000 plus.  What OS will not admit is the fact the NWA guys were forced to strike which is exactly what the company wanted them to do.  With the offer of 53% of the mechanics being put on the street with their vote of yes, they were forced to come together and actually what a union is suppose to do and support the group, not the "I got mine" group.  I walked with the NWA strikers a many times and they all said they will stand by their decision.  In retrospect, AMFA showed they had balls. NOT like the TWU agreeing to everything the company wants, changing voted rights, and doing behind close door deals.  If anything AMFA has proven unionism twice at NWA.  The first was the big pay raises brought to the mechanic industry by AMFA.  The second was of course the fact that AMFA did what a union is suppose to do when the company wants to sell out over 50% of the ranks.  NOT just sit back and let the company do it, AND, AGREE to it and sellit to the membership as a good thing.  Are you Tulsa guys seeing the light yet?   God I hope so.  OS, take your spin somewhere else, you are getting nowhere here what-so-ever...