Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[comatose]

Overspeed, please refresh my memory. What exactly is your job description at AA?
 
Just asking!

Which lie are you looking for?

 

[Bob Owens]

AA funded higher than the max many times. You'd know that if your read the notices that were sent to us.
 
AA cannot double their outsourcing percentage. It's based on 35% of what it takes to pay to run a normal operation.
 
I like how you waited for me to define parts first. That's classic Bob, let some else talk and throw rocks. Fact is capitalized parts are not included in the calculation.

Higher than the MAX? No higher than the Min, which Jim Little had us Lobby to lower. We lobbied to give AA more time to properly fund the pension to be able to meet its obligations. It saved AA millions, so sure we were getting Pension Credits but they were not putting in enough to meet the obligations, even with the pay cuts that lowered their expected obligations.

Weel admitted that the 401K would actually cost the company more in the short term but was expected to save over the long term (when the obligations came due after years of legally underfunding it.)


Once again you don't know the meaning of "or" .

A capitalized asset is considered to be something that is not easily sold. Engines that are not installed on wings are pretty easy to sell. Where is the definition or list of what is considered a Capitalized part and what prevents the company from altering how they categorize or account for their assetts?

 

[Bob Owens]

duplicate

 

[Bob Owens]

Wrong. The repair invoice cost includes labor an material.
 
And the TWU is responsible for monitoring outsourcing. It's in the contract.

Material the Vendor buys and sells to AA, not material provided by AA that AA purchased. Example, work done by non-TWU AA employees overseas with materials purchased by AA.

 

[1AA]

 
Wrong. The repair invoice cost includes labor an material.
 
And the TWU is responsible for monitoring outsourcing. It's in the contract.

TWU overseeing the outsourcing? Well that gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

 

[1AA]

 
AA funded higher than the max many times. You'd know that if your read the notices that were sent to us.
 
AA cannot double their outsourcing percentage. It's based on 35% of what it takes to pay to run a normal operation.
 
I like how you waited for me to define parts first. That's classic Bob, let some else talk and throw rocks. Fact is capitalized parts are not included in the calculation.

"NORMAL OPERATION" First you have to define normal in the airline industry. High season, low season, fluctuating fuel prices and so on. Unless there is language that defines all parameters that are normal then just saying normal means nothing.

 

[Rogallo]

TWU overseeing the outsourcing? Well that gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

 
Yeah, that's like "The fox watching the hen house!"
 
"They can do that , brother"

 

[Overspeed]

Material the Vendor buys and sells to AA, not material provided by AA that AA purchased. Example, work done by non-TWU AA employees overseas with materials purchased by AA.

 
It's still materials. And the TWU is supposed to be monitoring the outsourcing. If there is unusually high material costs shouldn't you be able to see that if you are monitoring it? Time to be responsible and do your jobs instead of just complaining.

 

[scorpion 2]

 
That's where you are wrong. All rotable parts (engines, flaps, fuel pumps, hyd pumps, etc...) are assets. Assets are not part of the maintenance expense because they are repairable. Only the expendable parts and material are used to repair or overhaul those rotable/repairable parts are expensed as part of the maintenance budget. Assets are carried on the corporate profit and loss statement.
 
Therefore an engine is not part of the maintenance expense and does not affect the outsourcing percentage. The bolts are however.

I want to see that in writing from the company! 

 

[dfw gen]

you are learning the true meaning of twu spin!

 

[swamt]

OS, you are so easy.  The TWU has you wrapped around their little pinky.  Do you really believe the TWU is watching the outsourcing and spend by the company?  Really? Are you for real?  Get a clue man, the TWU has "agreed" I repeat "agreed" to the outsourcing complicated formula for computing the outsourcing numbers and percentiles.  And you, and only you are out here protecting it, or at least trying to.  You look pathetic, you do not have all the facts, but then again, as I have stated long, long time ago, you are simply here to deflect from the AMFA drive and only promote TWU at whatever cost you can.  You, sir, are a very sad example of why the AA mechanics need to rid themselves of the TWU. Decades upon decades of concessions and give backs and agreements with the company behind closed doors OR the president of the union overriding the members votes to pass a vote.  Sad indeed mister, you need to get a clue, wake up and small the coffee...

 

[Overspeed]

OS, you are so easy.  The TWU has you wrapped around their little pinky.  Do you really believe the TWU is watching the outsourcing and spend by the company?  Really? Are you for real?  Get a clue man, the TWU has "agreed" I repeat "agreed" to the outsourcing complicated formula for computing the outsourcing numbers and percentiles.  And you, and only you are out here protecting it, or at least trying to.  You look pathetic, you do not have all the facts, but then again, as I have stated long, long time ago, you are simply here to deflect from the AMFA drive and only promote TWU at whatever cost you can.  You, sir, are a very sad example of why the AA mechanics need to rid themselves of the TWU. Decades upon decades of concessions and give backs and agreements with the company behind closed doors OR the president of the union overriding the members votes to pass a vote.  Sad indeed mister, you need to get a clue, wake up and small the coffee...

 
The AMFA formula is so much more simple. You just simply agree to outsource almost everything. Easy.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The AMFA formula is so much more simple. You just simply agree to outsource almost everything. Easy.

Overspun give it up already, your song has played its last dance
It is a known fact amongst the industry that the twu has undercut everybody in every so called negotiations. There is plenty of fully documented proof and due to their willingness to give the company everything they wanted and more they very effectively handcuffed negotiations for everyone else. Go ask how negotiations are going with the us air mechanics.the company is using the twu contract against their negotiations! Something to be proud of. Have us air call hewitt and he can explain how great ouf contract is or better yet why dont you call them and since you think it so great too.
The past anx current twu contracts and their ability to assist the company outside the contract
With programs like jlt and pli is clear to all not just me that the twu has failed and is the indusyry leading concessionary union that is undisputed in the industry. Dont take just my word for it ask around and you will hear what I speak about from others.
Your voice overpsun is mute and you can not despite how hard you try, deflect the complete failure of the twu in representing our class and craft over the years.
you never answered my original questionsome time ago
explain to everyone in detail the great accomplishments of the twu,just start with #1 and keep going. Should be easy for a proud twu supporterlike yourself.
ready set go......... do not post until you answer the questjon, we will wait for your re
response.

 

[iluvaa]

Wrong. The repair invoice cost includes labor an material.
 
And the TWU is responsible for monitoring outsourcing. It's in the contract.

what do consider monitoring, a report generated by AA.

 

[TWU informer]

 
It's still materials. And the TWU is supposed to be monitoring the outsourcing. If there is unusually high material costs shouldn't you be able to see that if you are monitoring it? Time to be responsible and do your jobs instead of just complaining.

 
 

 
The AMFA formula is so much more simple. You just simply agree to outsource almost everything. Easy.

Why have you and others been trained to speak of the "union" as if it were some seperate entity than "US"? What if the union membership took a vote, and the majority wanted to allow more outsourcing in exchange for higher wages and better benefits? Who would you blame? The membership, or the name of the "union"? The TWU is not succeeding, just taking a different path to failure. But WHO decides that path? How am I suppose to be responsible when the "union" is something other than me and my coworkers?
 
Modern day Unionist have been trained to believe and actually do believe that the "union" is something seperate from ourselves. Because that is what unions actually have become these days.
 
If you study labor history, the "union" is supposed to be "US", and the name of the "union" is a name, but more importantly a governing Constitution, a contract so to speak enforceable by law as to how the "union" leadership is to conduct business. The "union" isn't suppose to be a seperate entity from the dues payer, making all the decisions behind closed door, secret deals with management, and continuously deciding what is best for the membership without a vote.
 
This problem arose because the card carrying Communist took over the labor movement and now we have all of these leadership controlled dicatatorships with the leaders using what little political influence they have to protect themseleves from membership demand and control. The most un-American form of representation known to man,
 
The TWU has pulled every trick in the book of law to prevent a membership ballot to determine our direction and which Constitution we would like to be governed by. That is what a representatioanal election is supposed to be about, "which Constitution do you prefer to be governed by".
 
Why would any American Labor Leader want to deny the membership from getting a ballot on any issue?
 
How strong can a "union" be if they only exist on the property because the membership has been denied the right to vote? The majority of members have signed cards authorizing an election, and the TWU leadership has prevented that vote out of fear of what the voting results would be.
 
There can be nothing weaker than a labor organization representing your interest, when the majority seek and want change. The TWU leaders believe the members are fools and that we need to be saved from ourselves. This philosophy is as far off track as possible from the needed direction for a successful and strong union.
 
How would this forum read if everytime the name of a "union" was used, the word membership had to follow.
 
Instead of
AMFA
TWU
IAM
TEAMSTERS
did this or didn't do this, or that, the forum would read
 
AMFA membership
TWU membership
IAM membership
TEAMSTERS membership
 
Who is AMFA, TWU, IAM, TEAMSTERS, these days?
Because, I dont feel a sense of belonging or responsibility to any of those as it is today. I too speak of the "union" as something seperate from myself. Because that is exaclty what they have become and are.
 
 
If the membership is really in control of the union, we would all be on here blaming ourselves for every failure that has occurred and working diligently to correct those failures. Instead we have a leadership controlled union, that is operating with a flawed Constitution, on the property by undemocratic legal rangling, and the evidence is clear from this bulletin board forum that we have all been hoodwinked into a false understanding about unionsim should really look and feel like. And so, we spend our days, blaming union's by their name, instead of acknowledgement of a membership mistake, and our own responsiblity for weakness. We are not weak, we are not allowed to make the decisions. So we all get to blame something other than ourselves, and nothing ever changes.
 
And they call us humans the intelligent species on earth.
I think lower forms of a life are smarter.