Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[Chuck Schalk]

Overspun you keep deflecting to the same rhetoric about northwest airlines we have been over that already.   the TWU has given up more concessions than anyone else since 1983 starting with part timers and blazed the trail for industry leading concessions.....Fact.....maybe you have not read our contracts since 1983 but the TWU failure in negotiations is well documented and they have succeeded in ruining our careers......end of story.    defend the TWU since 1983 and stop deflecting
 
where were our great leaders like you fighting all those concessions not in bankruptcy

 

[Overspeed]

y

Overspun you keep deflecting to the same rhetoric about northwest airlines we have been over that already.   the TWU has given up more concessions than anyone else since 1983 starting with part timers and blazed the trail for industry leading concessions.....Fact.....maybe you have not read our contracts since 1983 but the TWU failure in negotiations is well documented and they have succeeded in ruining our careers......end of story.    defend the TWU since 1983 and stop deflecting
 
where were our great leaders like you fighting all those concessions not in bankruptcy

 
Chuck,
I have answered your question about the TWU getting hit with concessions. The fact remains that during the same period that labor has been under constant attack, no union has performed better in the aggregate sense than the TWU. The IAM, IBT, and AMFA have all given the ultimate concession...thet decided to give up completely and allow AMT jobs to go to low wage MROs. Your beloved AMFA has done the best job at the job loss concession. When only 20% of your dues paying members get to receive a top rate of $42 and the rest get sacked apparently in your mind that's a win. Probably because you believe it will be you getting it so you are willing to lie and convince people they will get it if your beloved AMFA gets in. In reality they should look around because you are willing to see 80% of them be sacrificed so you can gain a few extra bucks. AA loves people like you Chuck because you are so narrow minded they can easily take advantage of you and make you feel like you've won while in reality, management wins.
 
Back on the point of this thread. You started out trying to convince people the wage adjustment language was bad and it was proven that you didn't understand Art 4. Then you spouted off about Art 1 and again it was proven you didn't understand the CBA. The best thing about this thread is that it proves that AMFA leaders don't know what they are doing and their members suffer as a result.

 

[700UW]

 
Uh, your ignorance is showing. Two things, AA got smaller yet the AMT jobs per aircraft stayed stable so that means head count shrunk as expected when the fleet shrunk. Look at the stats. And that work load drops as new aircraft replace old ones that require more work.
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2012%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/MX/Average%20In%20House%20Maintenance%20Employees%20per%20Aircraft.htm
 
Look at the pre and post AMFA numbers for UA and NW. Where the heck did all those people go? That's a ton of jobs, way more than were lost at AA over the same period that you claim that the TWU did worse.
 
The new CBA does allow for more work to be outsourced but far less than is outsourced under any scope clause at any other unionized airline period.

Really?
 
US cant farm out line maintenance as AA does.
 
US does 50% of billable hours of heavy maintenance in-house.
 
Seems that 35% of the total maintenance budget is worse then what The IAM/US CBA has.
 
Your not being truthful again.

 

[Overspeed]

Really?
 
US cant farm out line maintenance as AA does.
 
US does 50% of billable hours of heavy maintenance in-house.
 
Seems that 35% of the total maintenance budget is worse then what The IAM/US CBA has.
 
Your not being truthful again.

 
Yes AA can farm out up to 15% of line. In the aggregate AA outsources fewer jobs. Using the measure of AMTs per aircraft AA has double the number compared to US. Looking at total expense US has outsourced up to 50% of expenses where AA is capped at 35% total.
 
50% of man hours gets you to 50% outsourced maintenance expense
 
I am being truthful.
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2012%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/MX/Percent%20of%20Maintenance%20Expenses%20Outsourced.htm
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2012%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/MX/Average%20In%20House%20Maintenance%20Employees%20per%20Aircraft.htm

 

[swamt]

OMG!!  Here comes the Overspeed's and Realitychecks.  Looks like the drive is working very well guys.  Keep up the great work.  AMFA at AA in 2014...

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Overspun
You seem to think that my statements are mine alone. What i speak about is exactly what the members feel and say at jfk/lga/bos/ewr and so on. If you want to prove your point be a man and state who you are and come to jfk and convince them they are wrong. Maybe you have not leftyour hole but what I speak about is the clear majority so do not make it that I am the sole mouthpiece on the the twu failing and being the leading concessionary union there are plenty of people who will support that you just dont care to ask them.
secondly, I know how to read twu contractual language, I have lived it and suffered from it. They can do that language is all in there.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The twu has given away thousands of jobs under their watch.
de icing from mx
Pushbacks from mx
Container shops
Facilities mx
Ramp to part time
Cabin service
Mechanic shop jobs
Mechanic jobs for less pay tulsa
Soon to be gone goldhopfering
Allowed 3rd party maintenance on our ramp
777 overhaul overseas
Gave away our system protection
These are off the top of my head there are more
So stop with the rah rah twu like they saved jobs. Over the years we have lost thousnds and the kicker is ready......wait for it........
the twu handed it to the company
AMFA made NWA take it from them.

 

[comatose]

The twu has given away thousands of jobs under their watch.
de icing from mx
Pushbacks from mx
Container shops
Facilities mx
Ramp to part time
Cabin service
Mechanic shop jobs
Mechanic jobs for less pay tulsa
Soon to be gone goldhopfering
Allowed 3rd party maintenance on our ramp
777 overhaul overseas
Gave away our system protection
These are off the top of my head there are more
So stop with the rah rah twu like they saved jobs. Over the years we have lost thousnds and the kicker is ready......wait for it........
the twu handed it to the company
AMFA made NWA take it from them.

With the assistance of the scab unions IAM and TWU.

 

[700UW]

Overspin,

35% of the total maintenance budget including line maintenance is greater that the 50% of billable heavt maintenance hours.

 

[737823]

Deleted-agreed to stay out of topic

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes AA can farm out up to 15% of line. In the aggregate AA outsources fewer jobs. Using the measure of AMTs per aircraft AA has double the number compared to US. Looking at total expense US has outsourced up to 50% of expenses where AA is capped at 35% total.
 
50% of man hours gets you to 50% outsourced maintenance expense
 
I am being truthful.
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2012%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/MX/Percent%20of%20Maintenance%20Expenses%20Outsourced.htm
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2012%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/MX/Average%20In%20House%20Maintenance%20Employees%20per%20Aircraft.htm

. That is wrong no matter how you spin it. Maintenance spend includes parts, so even if the pay rates are the equal 50% spend is more than 50% hours.

 

[Overspeed]

. That is wrong no matter how you spin it. Maintenance spend includes parts, so even if the pay rates are the equal 50% spend is more than 50% hours.

 
Define parts

 

[Overspeed]

Overspin, 35% of the total maintenance budget including line maintenance is greater that the 50% of billable heavt maintenance hours.

 
US maintenance spend is at 50% of total spend and you outsource 50% of billable hours. When you look at the number AMTs per aircraft US has fewer than AA and the spend cap is 35%. SInce we are concerned about jobs because that is how people get paid, lower maintenance spend equates to more inhouse jobs. 

 

[Overspeed]

The twu has given away thousands of jobs under their watch.
de icing from mx
Pushbacks from mx
Container shops
Facilities mx
Ramp to part time
Cabin service
Mechanic shop jobs
Mechanic jobs for less pay tulsa
Soon to be gone goldhopfering
Allowed 3rd party maintenance on our ramp
777 overhaul overseas
Gave away our system protection
These are off the top of my head there are more
So stop with the rah rah twu like they saved jobs. Over the years we have lost thousnds and the kicker is ready......wait for it........
the twu handed it to the company
AMFA made NWA take it from them.

 
Like I said all those items you mentioned are no longer at the other airlines either. And here is the kicker...wait for it...because all the outsourcing was "taken" from AMFA at NW during their "fight" that fact was used against the TWU in BK court. Yes AMFA's failure and refusal to negotiate resulted in the highest outsourcing in the industry. AA in court stated that airlines like NW, AS, WN, UA, CO, DL, and US had set the industry average on outsourcing at 50%, four of those airlines are/were represented by AMFA.
 
Again, AMFA is the industry leader in the ultimate concession...AMT jobs outsourced to low wage MROs. Thanks AMFA.

 

[Vortilon]

 
US maintenance spend is at 50% of total spend and you outsource 50% of billable hours. When you look at the number AMTs per aircraft US has fewer than AA and the spend cap is 35%. SInce we are concerned about jobs because that is how people get paid, lower maintenance spend equates to more inhouse jobs. 

 
 
Yeah, we have heard your union (so called) logic on this issue - contract after contract, and every time you TWU international types agree to slash and cut AMT wages and benefits - the company comes back and chops heads anyway.  No more!  Time to get the money and benefits restored!  If the company thinks they have to reduce headcount, than it is what it is.  It is not our job to keep taking pay and benefit cuts - so the International can claim some sort of temporary victory.