April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

August 2009 "We in the West wait with total confidence that the decision will stand. This is over folks"

Nothing has ever changed.

Hmmm....Not even the date? Is it still just as "over", " with total confidence", as it was in 2009?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

OK. It WASN'T a "windfall". Ask George Nicolau: "Both have benefited from the acquisition......USAirways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues."

Smile!! Happy Days!

I am lazy tonight, so I will post a repeat of my previous post:

Take a look at Cactus Dave, hired in September of 2000. I believe he is already in his mid-fifties, basically my age. I am not sure if he has ever been furloughed.

What if 4 years from now (due to a terror attack) the New American hits a rocky road, has to downsize, loses money. Maybe even hits the BK court. And after all that, it is time for what is left of a couple of the mega carriers to once again merge. But the new AMR went BK first, and the other carrier's pilots, though still working for a failing carrier (also, due to the terror attack) are able to get Dave (now over age 60 with 17 years service) behind one of their new hires on the seniority list.

Would Cactus Dave do what we have been doing? Or would he simply tell his family "suck it up?”

Actually, due to his extreme integrity, I am sure he would stick it to his family. It would be the only right thing to do. That is actually what he expects of us.

Greeter

 

[Claxon]

Nothing has ever changed. All of this is still true. Aside from the ripeness decision which was split by 4 Federal Judges 50/50 USAPA is still eye balls deep in a no win situation.

You're still on LOA93 if you haven't noticed.

If you were playing horseshoes with the USAPA legal team it would be a tie for you, but it is a court of law. You lost in the 9th Circuit Court. You will notice this when the DFR II is dismissed using the published ruling of the 9th as a legal reference.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

All the filings are supposedly done with Judge Silver, so the following may not have any bearing on her decision making. We don't know what the results of our negotiations and arbitrations, including M/B, will be. There is no final product. It does not exist yet. No ripeness.

But she was not buying Siegel’s BS argument that our New American contract was set in stone. What a reach. Nice fodder anyway for appeal, if needed.

The UCC agrees, and soon will Judge Lane.


"While USAPA supports the motion to approve the MOU, we were concerned about a statement made in the debtor’s motion that whatever resulted in the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement must adhere in substantial part to the economic outlines of the MOU. USAPA pointed out in its papers (click here) that if the parties could not agree, the arbitration provisions required the arbitrator to adhere to the broad economic provisions of the MOU, however, nothing in the agreement prohibited the parties from negotiating a new Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement that went beyond the outlines of the MOU. Additionally, USAPA pointed out that the Railway Labor Act specifically requires the parties to negotiate in good faith for a new Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement which could, if the parties agree, go beyond the confines of the Memorandum of Understanding.

At the hearing, counsel for the debtors agreed with the position that USAPA took in its papers. With that agreement, General Counsel O’Dwyer affirmed USAPA was satisfied with the motion as clarified."


Greeter

 

[Metroyet]

If you were playing horseshoes with the USAPA legal team it would be a tie for you, but it is a court of law. You lost in the 9th Circuit Court. You will notice this when the DFR II is dismissed using the published ruling of the 9th as a legal reference.

Their ripeness call cost you over 100k. You're Still getting the Nic...or worse,(for you)

 

[Metroyet]

Additionally, USAPA pointed out that the Railway Labor Act specifically requires the parties to negotiate in good faith for a new Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement

So when the very same Bradford and the rest of the founding members demanded ALPA leave the joint negotiations and issued their plan to never allow a ratification vote they were in violation of the RLA? NOW Bradford says that very behavior is illegal?

Hypocritical. Shocking.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

So when the very same Bradford and the rest of the founding members demanded ALPA leave the joint negotiations and issued their plan to never allow a ratification vote they were in violation of the RLA? NOW Bradford says that very behavior is illegal?

Hypocritical. Shocking.

You are angry and confused. How was "Bradford" telling ALPA anything, other than to hit the road? Demanding? Really? What say did Bradford have in 2007 with ALPA?

He was a competent and quiet pilot living in the surburbs of Pittsburgh at the time. But when he saw a 17 year pilot going behind a new hire he rose up. He led us to throw the largest pilot union in the world off the property, and became its new President. And where does he sit now?

Bradford and his crew did not come onto the scene until April of 2008. In record time, and as promised to the Company in early May 2008 during a personal visit, Bradford had had the new NAC up and at the table by July. Not that any of it matters, becasuse it was all thrown out, but the West Class AGREED in front of Judge Wake that USAPA was NOT slowing or holding up negotiations.

Greeter

 

[jetjok1]

I think it's a good thing they are mixing it up a bit.

You know what is going to happen, Pi. We have some that are going to resist on each side and make for an interesting day in the box. That's it in a nutshell.

Well, harassment comes in many forms.............better be careful out there

 

[cactusboy53]

I am lazy tonight, so I will post a repeat of my previous post:

Take a look at Cactus Dave, hired in September of 2000. I believe he is already in his mid-fifties, basically my age. I am not sure if he has ever been furloughed.

What if 4 years from now (due to a terror attack) the New American hits a rocky road, has to downsize, loses money. Maybe even hits the BK court. And after all that, it is time for what is left of a couple of the mega carriers to once again merge. But the new AMR went BK first, and the other carrier's pilots, though still working for a failing carrier (also, due to the terror attack) are able to get Dave (now over age 60 with 17 years service) behind one of their new hires on the seniority list.

Would Cactus Dave do what we have been doing? Or would he simply tell his family "suck it up?”

Actually, due to his extreme integrity, I am sure he would stick it to his family. It would be the only right thing to do. That is actually what he expects of us.

Greeter

Don't be sad for me Mark. My career was doing GREAT prior to May 2005. I hate cruise ships. The Titanic was a classic example. Then AWA Holding chose to tie up. OOPS.

It's all going to be just fine. Law, justice, common sense & ethics will prevail. Sit back and relax.

Dave

BTW - I would expect me to LIVE UP TO MY WORD, and not do some chicken-stuff move - like changing my name for a different outcome.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Don't be sad for me Mark. My career was doing GREAT prior to May 2005. I hate cruise ships. The Titanic was a classic example. Then AWA Holding chose to tie up. OOPS.

It's all going to be just fine. Law, justice, common sense & ethics will prevail. Sit back and relax.

Dave

Your reply (edited AFTER my reply to you) had little to do with my post. But I agree, all will be well (for both of us.)

I have always appreciated that AWA was there for us as a merger partner, we really were on death's door (and you not far behind.) But for the life of me, I have never understood the logic that we are to kneel before you as inferiors, simply because you were only a few months behind us in your fate.

As to ethics, how about a reply. If you with 17 years unbroken service were placed in the next merger behind a new hire, would you simply shrug your shoulders and move on? Really, I want to know.

Would you really tell your family "too bad" and move on? I would not, and did not. And I already had 22 years on the property at the time. Maybe it was more "personal" ethics on my part. Thats all I have, personal ethics.

Greeter

 

[luvthe9]

Their ripeness call cost you over 100k. You're Still getting the Nic...or worse,(for you)

Earth to Kev, NO NIC FOR YOU, copy, very simple.

 

[luvthe9]

Yes he is.

No he's not.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

BTW - I would expect me to LIVE UP TO MY WORD, and not do some chicken-stuff move - like changing my name for a different outcome.

That was some pretty strong poultry feces then! It kept the NIC at bay until now. My answer is clear, I WANTED to change the outcome. That was my goal.

Please, would you accept a similar ruling at your 17 year mark? It’s a simple yes or no question. No "expects" or diversions.

Going to sign off, have a commute tomorrow! Will reply on my next round here if necessary. Take care Dave.

Greeter

 

[EastUS1]

You're Still getting the Nic...or worse,(for you)

"... the Nic...or worse,.."? So...Whatever happened to all that absolute certainty that "The nic is it!"? You might want to revisit your previous assertion that nothing's changed since 2009. You're suffering some obvious difficulties here with keeping your stories straight.

 

[luvthe9]

My career was doing GREAT prior to May 2005. I hate cruise ships. I

Well you should be very happy with all the improvments you have gotten, you are with a respected airline now, geez how much more do you want. You westies just need to be patient a bit longer and you will have this whole place.