April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

Guess you have not heard, won't be any wideboies it seems now all our 767s will be parked by the end of 14, that's the latest, can't wait for those 195's!!!!!! bet the 330's are gone within 4 to 5 years.

At least the 195 rates will be the same as what our 320's are now. I was worried we might take a pay cut or something!

 

[Metroyet]

OK, Now tell me with a staight face, that the Nic wasn't a windfall. Every west pilot can hold a captains position on the last east bid, nope no windfall there.

Straight face. The Nic was the COMPROMISE. A windfall would have been waiting for you to liquidate and stapling your entire bk operation. Your ill-gotten gains have exacerbated the list disparity. The bill is coming due and its going to be paid in full. If that stagnates your side or causes downgrades for the next 5 years too bad. Do you realize that you could have made tens of thousands more dollars and enjoyed a vastly different contract years ago AND STILL had 2 out of every 3 upgrades like Nic gave you? Nope. You had to have it all, you're smarter, better, more entitled. Look where it's gotten you. You'd better pray the West isn't an independent 3rd party at the AMR SLI table. Kiss the 517 windfall goodbye. Any resistance USAPA has to independent west representation is more unquestionable truth their sole purpose is to deny the West any fair dealings.

Tell me with a straight face that USAPA exists for any other purpose than to avoid the results of the final and binding arbitration you agreed to.

 

[Pi brat]

AND STILL had 2 out of every 3 upgrades like Nic gave you?

Show your math.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

USAPA indeed exists because of the NIC award (obviously not final or binding.) If the windfalls in the NIC had been softened, and new hires not put before 17 year pilots, USAPA would not exist. And West Class pilots would already be flying across the Atlantic.

Whatever the intent of the founders, nothing can change the truth. Blame USAPA on the NIC. I believe this fact was already admitted in a filing during the Declaratory Judgment process.

What does it matter now? Judge Silver has already told you she has heard all that old news. She was looking for something new to rule on a DFR.

Hey, I like coming on here and turning over rocks, just to see what I can find. (I am obviously not alone!) But really, it’s now down to what Judge Silver comes back with.

Greeter (with a straight but wrinkling face)

 

[nycbusdriver]

USAPA indeed exists because of the NIC award (obviously not final or binding.) If the windfalls in the NIC had been softened, and new hires not put before 17 year pilots, USAPA would not exist. And West Class pilots would already be flying across the Atlantic.

Whatever the intent of the founders, nothing can change the truth. Blame USAPA on the NIC. I believe this fact was already admitted in a filing during the Declaratory Judgment process.

What does it matter now? Judge Silver has already told you she has heard all that old news. She was looking for something new to rule on a DFR.

Hey, I like coming on here and turning over rocks, just to see what I can find. (I am obviously not alone!) But really, it’s now down to what Judge Silver comes back with.

Greeter (with a straight but wrinkling face)

IMHO, had AWA at Wye River proposed LOS with east pilots locked out of PHX and LAS bids for all eternity, and west pilots allowed to move east by LOS, we might not be having these discussions. "Brainiac" Nicolau could have come up with the same compromise, and we would still be ALPA. But, Noooooooo! Brainiac had to show those east pilots who's boss, and stick it in their craw. And here we are.

But "Nic or nothing" was, and is, the mantra. The east refused Nic with such zeal that they did the unthinkable ("You won't get 200 cards." Yeah, right.) So that leaves the west with the only alternative they wanted: nothing (as their own lawyer warned,) and their own operation earned.

But there's still a chance. No one is asking me, but LOS with fences as I indicated would still work, IMHO. And Judge Silver hasn't phoned, either.

 

[cactusboy53]

OK, Now tell me with a staight face, that the Nic wasn't a windfall. Every west pilot can hold a captains position on the last east bid, nope no windfall there.

OK. It WASN'T a "windfall". Ask George Nicolau: "Both have benefited from the acquisition......USAirways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues."

Smile!! Happy Days!

 

[Pi brat]

OK. It WASN'T a "windfall". Ask George Nicolau: "Both have benefited from the acquisition......USAirways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues."

Smile!! Happy Days!

Still trying to recover your failed career on the backs of east pilots.

 

[traderjake]

Guess you have not heard, won't be any wideboies it seems now all our 767s will be parked by the end of 14, that's the latest, can't wait for those 195's!!!!!! bet the 330's are gone within 4 to 5 years.

When will you be gone?

 

[Phoenix]

IMHO, had AWA at Wye River proposed LOS with east pilots locked out of PHX and LAS bids for all eternity, and west pilots allowed to move east by LOS, we might not be having these discussions. "Brainiac" Nicolau could have come up with the same compromise, and we would still be ALPA. But, Noooooooo! Brainiac had to show those east pilots who's boss, and stick it in their craw. And here we are.

But "Nic or nothing" was, and is, the mantra. The east refused Nic with such zeal that they did the unthinkable ("You won't get 200 cards." Yeah, right.) So that leaves the west with the only alternative they wanted: nothing (as their own lawyer warned,) and their own operation earned.

But there's still a chance. No one is asking me, but LOS with fences as I indicated would still work, IMHO. And Judge Silver hasn't phoned, either.

I agree your solution would be a reasonable solution and it would be ratified, but it appears the West doesn't remember what happened when the East MEC came back to Nicolau and said they were happy with their position, as is. Now the West is coming back to Silver with "Nic or nothing" and give us attorney fees too.

Maybe Silver can come up with something that will surprise us all. We'll see.

 

[cactusboy53]

Still trying to recover your failed career on the backs of east pilots.

Who says my career is "failed"? I sure don't. I was hired by the major airline that turned out to be a survivor among them all.

Smile! Happy Days!!

 

[Pi brat]

Who says my career is "failed"? I sure don't. I was hired by the major airline that turned out to be a survivor among them all.

Smile! Happy Days!!

I don't either, just want to see if you had me on ignore and rattle your cage a little. But, without the merger with US, you wouldn't be looking at what you are now.

 

[cactusboy53]

I don't either, just want to see if you had me on ignore and rattle your cage a little. But, without the merger with US, you wouldn't be looking at what you are now (IN MY OPINION).

Perhaps, but as I recall that was a soundbyte from LCC management as they waved the "neutral" flag. Amazingly, the company got 6+ years of bankruptcy wages from you guys all for waving the "neutral flag".

According to industry "experts", that may not have been the case. No more history lessons. No more do overs. Final is final and binding is binding (both before and now). I will ultimately let the court system do my talking for me.

CB

PS The only dwellers that I've been tempted to "ignor" is Claxon & Mutatis. The problem is that the posts from Frick & Frack are so darned funny, it makes me laugh. You just can't buy that kind of entertainment.

 

[Claxon]

Perhaps, but as I recall that was a soundbyte from LCC management as they waved the "neutral" flag. Amazingly, the company got 6+ years of bankruptcy wages from you guys all for waving the "neutral flag".

According to industry "experts", that may not have been the case. No more history lessons. No more do overs. Final is final and binding is binding (both before and now). I will ultimately let the court system do my talking for me.

CB

PS The only dwellers that I've been tempted to "ignor" is Claxon & Mutatis. The problem is that the posts from Frick & Frack are so darned funny, it makes me laugh. You just can't buy that kind of entertainment.

Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't either, just want to see if you had me on ignore and rattle your cage a little. But, without the merger with US, you wouldn't be looking at what you are now (IN MY OPINION).

... You just can't buy that kind of entertainment.

You felt the necessity to add "in my opinion" to Pi Brat's claim that AWA pilots wouldn't be looking at a merger with AMR sans being tied to USAir...

Are you suggesting AWA pilots had the career expectation to be on the APA list? That's one of the most remarkable things about pilots.. they never seem to be encumbered with any sense of appropriate humility, neither are they burdened with any constraints to unbridled, irrational, utopian optimism. But no surprise, its what each is entitled to!

Entertainment Indeed.

 

[AWE Dog]

Oh yea, without the east, America West would be merging with American. They need another hub close to DFW and America West still holds those valuable CMH slots. Maybe it's the modern new fleet.