April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[mrbreeze]

oops

 

[nevergiveup]

The company wants an MB 3 way and I still suspect they will get it. Judge Silver will get all parties to agree and that will be it....maybe. I give it a 95% chance of happening that way.

 

[Phoenix]

The company wants an MB 3 way and I still suspect they will get it. Judge Silver will get all parties to agree and that will be it....maybe. I give it a 95% chance of happening that way.

Nothing has changed, nothing needs to change, and nothing will change unless Silver decides that the court has the authority and necessity to change the MOU that we all voted for.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I imagine if there is any entity granted more deference from the courts than a union, it would be a corporation. We'll just have to see what the company files, and what Judge Silver comes back with.

I figure no matter what happens here, the three arbitrators will get their hands on this in some form. I think they'll be able to figure it all out just fine.

 

[Metroyet]

Nothing has changed, nothing needs to change, and nothing will change unless Silver decides that the court has the authority and necessity to change the MOU that we all voted for.

You really have ZERO understanding of how this MOU was supposed to address the East/West issue. Sorry your union lied to you, and sorry you seemingly believed them, but this MOU....IN NO WAY shields USAPA from their duty to fairly represent the West. I said it before, you'd better hope for an Injunction over a truly independent 3way MB process.

There's a reason USAPA is coming unglued at that idea. The idea of having to put the West on a truly level playing field, plus the very real risk of getting to pay for the last 6 years of their abhorrently illegal behavior, has Symanski in a panic. If it goes 3 ways, I'd expect the nic starting from the top.

 

[nevergiveup]

You really have ZERO understanding of how this MOU was supposed to address the East/West issue. Sorry your union lied to you, and sorry you seemingly believed them, but this MOU....IN NO WAY shields USAPA from their duty to fairly represent the West. I said it before, you'd better hope for an Injunction over a truly independent 3way MB process.

There's a reason USAPA is coming unglued at that idea. The idea of having to put the West on a truly level playing field, plus the very real risk of getting to pay for the last 6 years of their abhorrently illegal behavior, has Symanski in a panic. If it goes 3 ways, I'd expect the nic starting from the top.

Using the Nic would be a 2 way, not a 3 way.

 

[Metroyet]

Using the Nic would be a 2 way, not a 3 way.

fine. Didn't mean to confuse you. Relative seniority starting at the top using the same nic snapshot date. Because try as you might, the reality is us air has been one airline for years and the benefits nic baked into his list to protect the web flying have been enjoyed by the east. That benefit expires. You want a do over? Beware what you wish for.

 

[prechilill]

Exactly... neutrality and the case not being ripe suited management's purposes just fine as long as they could keep us on LOA93, refuse to enter into serious negotiations and save themselves $100+ million a year. Now, there is another source of cash and our little spat is getting in the way. I believe that management could have brokered a deal many times over the last 6 years but that wasn't the cheap thing to do.

Perhaps our pilot group can approach Parker with an offer to settle the seniority issue and move this forward provided the US pilot group receives commensurate signing bonuses as our AMR counterparts. It seems Parker needs this deal more than anyone.

 

[Phoenix]

You really have ZERO understanding of how this MOU was supposed to ...

Was supposed to...

In the words of Donald Rumsfeld... "You don't go to war with the army you were supposed to have, you go with the one you do have."

 

[fatherabraham]

The remaining few westie Nic " Believers " desperation post, cloaked with authority/compromise/bravado/righteousness etc are quite amusing .
Fact remains you lost.
Get over it.

FA

 

[Metroyet]

The companies response is interesting. Either way, they want the seniority integration ball stripped out of USAPAs hands. They seem to prefer a truly independent 3 way. Barring that an injunction forcing the nic is also fine with them. Agreed.

 

[snapthis]

The companies response is interesting. Either way, they want the seniority integration ball stripped out of USAPAs hands. They seem to prefer a truly independent 3 way. Barring that an injunction forcing the nic is also fine with them. Agreed.

Doc 110, 5/24/13 US Airways response

In the instant case, as the Court is aware, the East Pilots and the West Pilots continue to operate under two separate seniority lists due to a dispute over pilot seniority integration following the US Airways-America West merger and no integrated seniority list has been implemented. Because integration of the “West” seniority list and the “East”​

seniority list will effectively have to occur in order to achieve a single seniority list for all US Airways and American pilots following the, the East pilots and West pilots constitute distinct seniority interest groups. Given that USAPA is constitutionally committed to date-of-hire seniority and to oppose the Nicolau Award, a position which the West Pilots ​

believe is diametrically opposed to their interests, separate representation for the West Pilots is essential to a “fair and equitable” process of seniority integration because, as the CAB recognized, absent such representation, one employee group could “dictate the seniority rights of [the other group].” Braniff-Mid Continent Merger Case, 17 C.A.B.​

 

[Metroyet]

Doc 110, 5/24/13 US Airways response

In the instant case, as the Court is aware, the East Pilots and the West Pilots continue to operate under two separate seniority lists due to a dispute over pilot seniority integration following the US Airways-America West merger and no integrated seniority list has been implemented. Because integration of the “West” seniority list and the “East”​

seniority list will effectively have to occur in order to achieve a single seniority list for all US Airways and American pilots following the, the East pilots and West pilots constitute distinct seniority interest groups. Given that USAPA is constitutionally committed to date-of-hire seniority and to oppose the Nicolau Award, a position which the West Pilots ​

believe is diametrically opposed to their interests, separate representation for the West Pilots is essential to a “fair and equitable” process of seniority integration because, as the CAB recognized, absent such representation, one employee group could “dictate the seniority rights of [the other group].” Braniff-Mid Continent Merger Case, 17 C.A.B.​

He conveniently forgot that the TA requires nic. Implementation upon MOU ratification. An event siegle emphatically insisted in court had, in fact, happened. This dispute has not ended due to the companies specific failure to comply with the TA. They are as much to blame as USAPA. I'm sure AOL is more than happy to clarify that to Silver. Although, a " nic-517" would be hysterically funny to see.

 

[Phoenix]

Doc 110, 5/24/13 US Airways response

In the instant case, as the Court is aware, the East Pilots and the West Pilots continue to operate under two separate seniority lists due to a dispute over pilot seniority integration following the US Airways-America West merger and no integrated seniority list has been implemented. Because integration of the “West” seniority list and the “East”​

seniority list will effectively have to occur in order to achieve a single seniority list for all US Airways and American pilots following the, the East pilots and West pilots constitute distinct seniority interest groups. Given that USAPA is constitutionally committed to date-of-hire seniority and to oppose the Nicolau Award, a position which the West Pilots ​

believe is diametrically opposed to their interests, separate representation for the West Pilots is essential to a “fair and equitable” process of seniority integration because, as the CAB recognized, absent such representation, one employee group could “dictate the seniority rights of [the other group].” Braniff-Mid Continent Merger Case, 17 C.A.B.​

ie. USAPA will probably, most definitely we assume, certainly could, might most likely breach its duty to fairly represent West pilots so USAPA must not be allowed any deference or wide range of reasonableness in representing all it pilots.

Already litigated.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Some have hinted that USAPA, US Airways, and the West Class could reach a "deal" and allow third party status. Of course they can.

It’s called a contract. Present me with a new one to vote on prior to the POR and I will give it due consideration. Otherwise no third party status allowed. If it is imposed by Judge Silver, the East Class will appeal all the way to SCOTUS. That should tie up Parker's little party with the press and Wall Street for a while, and delay the consolidation of the airlines. In fact, it will look very ugly to Judge Lane and the Creditors. They don't want any unknowns.

Greeter