April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

By the way, the meet and greet?

 

[Metroyet]

This is really interesting now. You have gone from Nic or nothing to begging for a re do.

Hardly wacko. The 3 way MB thing has next to a zero percent chance of happening. Which, if I were you, I'd be damn glad about. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that given the choice between an Injunction forcing the nic or a truly independent MB 3 way, You'd be crazy to not take the Injunction. Odds are good the West would be placed via the Nic....just starting 517 numbers HIGHER. Silver has painted USAPA into the last little bit of the corner...for a reason.

 

[luvthe9]

Hardly wacko. The 3 way MB thing has next to a zero percent chance of happening. Which, if I were you, I'd be damn glad about. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that given the choice between an Injunction forcing the nic or a truly independent MB 3 way, You'd be crazy to not take the Injunction. Odds are good the West would be placed via the Nic....just starting 517 numbers HIGHER. Silver has painted USAPA into the last little bit of the corner...for a reason.

Sure Kev, just like the laser beams, hair on fire. Maybe you should take the polygraph too, with Doyle.

 

[Metroyet]

Sure Kev, just like the laser beams, hair on fire. Maybe you should take the polygraph too, with Doyle.

Were you in the court room?

 

[Pi brat]

You're grasping at straws if you think that "process" was to be used retroactively and applied to parties that were never named in your CBA. The new process is MB between US Air pilots and American pilots. There is no discussion whatsoever about East/West. The only thing Silver made solid agreement with was that this MOU was 100% neutral on seniority. Nobody agreed to anything East and West. Either side.

Then you haven't read the MOU. Just because it was neutral on the current dispute doesn't mean it didn't lay out a process to move forward.

 

[Pi brat]

So the pilots should never be allowed any contractual improvements ever? Didn't The East pilots cost everybody enough when they illegally walked away from negotiations in 2007? Money doesn't justify a yes vote? You know USAPA was NEVER going to get any kind of improvements for anybody barring the help of another merger. The only No voters were guys that thought you CoC was worth more than 1.6 billion. Many airlines are on their SECOND contract since USAPA showed up. All TOS narrowbody FO's make about 7+ grand a year more than your TOS captains. What's wrong with getting some financial relief and moving seniority out of the picture....which is exactly what happened.

You don't have line item veto. You have to look at the entire package and decide if it is overall a better deal or not. That's why the east pilots walked away, there wasn't a deal available from Parker that was worth completing the TA, and we had that right.

I'm all for allowing the west pilots to have a voice on the merger. West members on the merger committee. But, they shouldn't have more of a voice than the rest of the 2/3 of us.

 

[CaptChill]

You don't have line item veto. You have to look at the entire package and decide if it is overall a better deal or not. That's why the east pilots walked away, there wasn't a deal available from Parker that was worth completing the TA, and we had that right.

I'm all for allowing the west pilots to have a voice on the merger. West members on the merger committee. But, they shouldn't have more of a voice than the rest of the 2/3 of us.

Amen Brother!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You don't have line item veto. You have to look at the entire package and decide if it is overall a better deal or not. That's why the east pilots walked away, there wasn't a deal available from Parker that was worth completing the TA, and we had that right.

I'm all for allowing the west pilots to have a voice on the merger. West members on the merger committee. But, they shouldn't have more of a voice than the rest of the 2/3 of us.

That "line item veto" thing always gets them, there were other important parts of the T/A they "FAIL TO RECOGNIZE"!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Amen Brother!

A legal and with "DIRECTION OF THE BPR" single voice! No stolen documents allowed, like the last time westies!

 

[Metroyet]

You don't have line item veto. You have to look at the entire package and decide if it is overall a better deal or not. That's why the east pilots walked away, there wasn't a deal available from Parker that was worth completing the TA, and we had that right.

I'm all for allowing the west pilots to have a voice on the merger. West members on the merger committee. But, they shouldn't have more of a voice than the rest of the 2/3 of us.

How would fair and equal representation give the West anything more than the East?

 

[Bill Brasky]

How would fair and equal representation give the West anything more than the East?

I see we're making progress

 

[end_of_alpa]

The only M/B airline integration that I know of, that has actually gone to full arbitration was in the Republic Merger(s).
Let me count the airline groups in that process (and you tell me what unions/no unions represented each them)

Republic
Lynxx
Midwest Express
Frontier

Are just "three ways" illegal? What about "four ways?"

As to your objectives at the beginning, I believe you are in the company of many others who also may have not agreed with the exact final outcome. One methodology prevailed, and was voted on by all the members. Thence a new bargaining agent with an old outlook on seniority integrations.

Best,

Greeter

I was addressing our situation. A three way here is illegal. In the case you mention, all had union representation.

As far as the decision with the C & B for USAPA, before the NMB certification, our conference call consisted of Peterson, myself, Theruer, Bradford, Szpyrka, Martin, and maybe one other. It was during that discussion that DOH with conditions and restrictions were going to be adopted. I was, again, overruled. This was also the discussion where seniority block voting was tabled until after the election. I know, Scott and I discussed at length. He really liked it (and so did I) but I had to convince him that it was better to stick to a C & B that didn't rock the boat, so to speak.

 

[Claxon]

I see we're making progress

There is quite a bit of angst from the PHX pilots towards Horneryet, respolygrah, Fergie, Koontz after the story of damage and the Nic all these years. Can you imagine the comments after what Silver said about the Nic not having to be used? All the monies spent, all the cases lost. The angry wives, the shortfall in retirement funds. Ferguson even took a second mortgage to pay for this. They are cornered, and want a way out.

 

[end_of_alpa]

End and Brasky

Follow me here. USAPA appeals any negative ruling to the 9th on the basis of ripeness. The attendant timeline takes us beyond the sunset of USAPA and its ability to finance any court action with membership dues. APA will not fight our DOH quest in court. This leaves the east pilots to form their own version of AOL. Lets call it AOX (Army of Xerxes) and then finance the next round of litigation out of pocket.

APA has already stated their position on DOH. So what exactly is your strategy?

USAPA has millions of dollars in the bank and it will not revert to APA. USAPA under the MOU has legal standing until M/B is complete. USAPA will sunset when M/B is complete....not before. You need to read the MOU. APA has their own cross to bear, and I hope all this legal mumbo-jumbo is just the tip of the iceberg.

Why do you think USAPA raised its dues?

 

[EastUS1]

This is really interesting now. You have gone from Nic or nothing to begging for a re do.

That's arguably the most apt summation I've seen here in days. Sheesh! And here we were all told that the nic was to be ordered in as "it" and an injunction granted on the 14th. Now it's all variations on "Just kidding!..But this time; we really, really, REALLY mean it!: We'll get you and your little dog too!...Just like we have for the last 6+ years now!..So you better be scared THIS time!...Even though yet another court session just finished telling us to blow the nic up our collective arses again!" Sigh!....It seems ya' just can't trust "spartans" for anything these days.