April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Every party at the table has the right to demand arbitration. If the West gets an independant seat at the table, I wouldn't characterize their desire for arbitration an act of interferring with a negotiated settlement any more than any other pilot group that has arbitrated their list....which is to say nearly ALL of them. What I think you're really saying is you're scared to death to put the West on a level playing field, give them actual rights, and allow for their fair representation. That's pretty much what I'm gathering from all the East opposition. What do you do with, AWAPPA, MDA, the list goes on heck the E190 pilots assoc should get a seat!

If DOH is within a wide range of reasonableness....despite the Nic award...then you have nothing to fear.

 

[Metroyet]

You really need to learn how to quote something.

 

[snapthis]

Immature statement. Insensitive to some who may frequent this board.

I forgot, Liberals deny the existance of short buses.

Please accept my apology to you... and to Courtney btw who looked completely dumbfounded by the big words tossed around in court.

My apology in full

 

[FL430]

And what seniority would you use to integrate with American? DOH? Nicolau?

Ever heard of two seniority lists depending on where you bid?

But keep fishing. The ideas will only get weirder as the walls close in on your DOH dream and usapa begins to fade away.

You did read that the west has proposed arbitration correct? Let the arbitrator decide. Nicolau or the "gold standard" the arbitrator chooses one. Are you confident that usapa's position will be picked by a neutral? Can you convince a different arbitrator that what you invented in the back of a van is fair to ALL the pilots usapa says they represent and not biased for or against one group?

I am willing to bet all in, my position against yours. Are you?

You need to correct this: replace arbitrator with arbitrators. That is because your buddy Nic made a lot of bad assumptions and screwed the AWA/AAA arbitration up. The process has now changed because of his screw up. 30000 legacy airline pilots in this country say that I am correct. And when we have our next arbitration the three arbitrators will know exactly why there are three of them there now. Reason enough to get it right - If they ever want to find work again. Just ask your buddy Nic.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You really need to learn how to quote something.

You really need to learn how to quote something.

Sorry your so troubled! Sit back relax enjoy the ride!

 

[prechilill]

Nope, won't work. The East would be stupid to agree to that. You have nothing to offer. The ONLY way I would agree to another arbitration would be with 3 or more arbitrators on the panel, clean slates (i.e. no Nic, can't even be presented, in order to preclude any misunderstanding about it's relevance), and clear guidance including preference for LOS or DOH as part of the formula, just like ALPA has done.

Anything less would be an abdication of principles for USAPA. You guys could have had some of your windfall years ago, but elected not to, even firing your lawyer that recommended you do so. Pretty stupid, wasn't it?

You don't have a choice, you are irrelevant.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

So the pilots should never be allowed any contractual improvements ever? Didn't The East pilots cost everybody enough when they illegally walked away from negotiations in 2007? Money doesn't justify a yes vote? You know USAPA was NEVER going to get any kind of improvements for anybody barring the help of another merger. The only No voters were guys that thought you CoC was worth more than 1.6 billion. Many airlines are on their SECOND contract since USAPA showed up. All TOS narrowbody FO's make about 7+ grand a year more than your TOS captains. What's wrong with getting some financial relief and moving seniority out of the picture....which is exactly what happened.

No our SCOPE and change of control was moved out of the picture and like our profit sharing you benefit! You were never, ever going to get "JOINT RATIFICATION" with the NIC, a little detail like a you fail to mention!

 

[Metroyet]

No our SCOPE and change of control was moved out of the picture and like our profit sharing you benefit! You were never, ever going to get "JOINT RATIFICATION" with the NIC, a little detail like a you fail to mention!

How do you know?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Every party at the table has the right to demand arbitration. If the West gets an independant seat at the table, I wouldn't characterize their desire for arbitration an act of interferring with a negotiated settlement any more than any other pilot group that has arbitrated their list....which is to say nearly ALL of them. What I think you're really saying is you're scared to death to put the West on a level playing field, give them actual rights, and allow for their fair representation. That's pretty much what I'm gathering from all the East opposition.

If DOH is within a wide range of reasonableness....despite the Nic award...then you have nothing to fear.

You have a seat at the table, your union USAPA! Run along catch up on your MARTY payments! Courtesy the EAST pilots and there scope, COC give away!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

How do you know?

Well after the pension give away we thought ALPA had out lived their usefullness ! Booted them to the Curb, besides ALPA affirmed the 9th in the NAUGHLER remember, I didn't see any olive branches , (feces aint olive branches) convincing this group of any ALPA policy that should be jointly ratified!

 

[FL430]

Oh for God's sake. She NEVER said USAPA can use their DOH list without reprecussions. She said what the 9th said: USAPA is free to hang themselves if they want to. You are free to shout "Fire!" in a movie theatre too but don't count on your right to free speach to protect you. Same principle. Let's also not forget that Silver also stated, emphatically I might add, that the NIC was FAIR and she reiterated several times that the Union was willing to tread "dangerous ground" if abandoning it. USAPA has never understood what their roll actually is as a Labor Union. That's because it was formed for use as a weapon...the antethesis of their actual legal duties.

She can't force anybody to go to Arbitration. She can issue the Injunction as requested by the Plaintiffs or find it not ripe. Everybody but USAPA says it's ripe. Let's not forget that the company...the only Lawyer she let finish a sentence....is emphatic that the MOU is a new CBA. Which completes the TA requirements to implement the Nic. The TA was never amended to change the requirement to accept and implement the Nic. Just because USAPA demands it, doesn't make it so. Your C&BL's, internal BPR procedures, etc are all pointless irrelevant issues as far as the law is concerned. At least in the face of a Ripe DFR.

USAPA has a choice: Neither of them are palatable.

You sure get worked up about things that don't "affect" you!

 

[Claxon]

It'll probably never happen, but why would you be opposed to the West having their own representation at the table? What's the harm? They had that under ALPA What's the big deal now? The East has been saying for years that USAPA can appoint West reps that can bind the entire group to some kind of settlement. Isn't this the same thing?

You east pilots have them by the short ones. You NEVER would have heard Horner begin to go here before. Him and Captain Gay. Just sit back now, they are pretty much finished with their little LLC game.

 

[Claxon]

Every party at the table has the right to demand arbitration. If the West gets an independant seat at the table, I wouldn't characterize their desire for arbitration an act of interferring with a negotiated settlement any more than any other pilot group that has arbitrated their list....which is to say nearly ALL of them. What I think you're really saying is you're scared to death to put the West on a level playing field, give them actual rights, and allow for their fair representation. That's pretty much what I'm gathering from all the East opposition.

If DOH is within a wide range of reasonableness....despite the Nic award...then you have nothing to fear.

This is really interesting now. You have gone from Nic or nothing to begging for a re do.

 

[Bill Brasky]

You don't have a choice, you are irrelevant.

And you're junior. Enjoy! YOU LOSE! Pay up! Marty will be filing his suit against you guys soon enough.

 

[Claxon]

You don't have a choice, you are irrelevant.

Here is Miss Doomsday countdown. Ripe, ripe, ripe, NOT.