April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cleardirect]

All in with what? You guys have got NOTHING. You have zilch to go all-in with.

I read your lawyers' proposal. No thanks. I'm glad that USAPA has taken a position against it. For one thing, going back to arbitration on this would stretch it out for a long time, time we don't have.

Obviously you did not read the filing.

The time line is very short. First available arbitrator, decision within 30 days of the start of arbitration. That gets us done before the POR. Or option B is a court ordered injunction telling you to use the Nicolau.

Yes all in. Arbitration choice A choice B. no compromise. No list C. Either it is Nicolau or DOH. I am willing to place that bet. Are you? Does not sound like it.

You want usapa to dictate what they think is fair and avoid a fair process.

 

[Claxon]

If Silver rules against USAPA...highly likely IMHO, the company is going to withdraw the appeal at the 9th. It's already mostly moot anyway. This will be up to you guys to appeal to the 9th, USAPA will cease to exist, and the tables fully turn. USAPA still has a fundamental misunderstanding of what fair representation actually means AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

Stay tuned...

Your IMHO carries zero cred Kevin. Zero.

 

[Metroyet]

The company pays the tab.

What difference does it make if it is one or three? You think you have a better case with three?

The facts don't change with the number of arbitrators. He has only two choices. A or B, the Nicolau of DOH.

If what usapa has been saying for years that DOH is the gold standard it should not take three arbitrators to decide. One is all we need.

NOBODY is going to be able to schedule 3 arbitrators on short notice. One if you're lucky. Almost pointless as this isnt about arbitration. USAPA still doesn't get it. Never have.

 

[Claxon]

Obviously you did not read the filing.

The time line is very short. First available arbitrator, decision within 30 days of the start of arbitration. That gets us done before the POR. Or option B is a court ordered injunction telling you to use the Nicolau.

Yes all in. Arbitration choice A choice B. no compromise. No list C. Either it is Nicolau or DOH. I am willing to place that bet. Are you? Does not sound like it.

You want usapa to dictate what they think is fair and avoid a fair process.

Captain Gay, with a lecture disguised as a question. On his knees no less.

 

[cleardirect]

A "three way" is illegal under RLA. If you want more than two, lets open it up to five....no, seven....hey, what about me? Lets make it 5,500 and counting! The real FACT here is that a smaller group has learned from ALPA, APA and SWAPA how to devalue their own profession by using failed carrier doctrine to advance their own interests over the safety of the profession. This is why M/B came about: to PREVENT the larger group from stripping the smaller/weaker group from THEIR LOS. Read US Airways response to the court about M/B. Labor is theirs, and now OUR, own worst enemy.

No matter, it looks like Steve Bradford is going to empower an ad hoc committee to renegotiate with AwFOL. STeve WANTED DOH in the C & B, along with the majority of those on the conference call. I know, I was there. Steve and the majority explicitly said that they couldn't sell USAPA without that being in there.

I wanted an objective, measurable standard to apply. I was overruled. The rest is history.

If you were to ask me the predictions for the future of the profession, after the CLT injunction and what is going on here, I see much tighter control over what pilots will be able to do, with less authority and MORE pay restrictions. The New Amerikan airlines are going to FORCE all the other carriers to compete on pay and FORCE their unions to drop their pay to arch ours. We'll see how my prophesy pays out in ten years, but lets revisit it then and see if I'm right.

Congratulations. That will be the east pilot and usapa's legacy. The weakening of labor because you guys would not could not live up to your word. You wanted to attach seniority to contract/economics.

 

[Bill Brasky]

The company pays the tab.

What difference does it make if it is one or three? You think you have a better case with three?

The facts don't change with the number of arbitrators. He has only two choices. A or B, the Nicolau of DOH.

If what usapa has been saying for years that DOH is the gold standard it should not take three arbitrators to decide. One is all we need.

Nope, won't work. The East would be stupid to agree to that. You have nothing to offer. The ONLY way I would agree to another arbitration would be with 3 or more arbitrators on the panel, clean slates (i.e. no Nic, can't even be presented, in order to preclude any misunderstanding about it's relevance), and clear guidance including preference for LOS or DOH as part of the formula, just like ALPA has done.

Anything less would be an abdication of principles for USAPA. You guys could have had some of your windfall years ago, but elected not to, even firing your lawyer that recommended you do so. Pretty stupid, wasn't it?

 

[Metroyet]

Hey Scooter, what happened to your predictions? Your boys got nothing in court, in fact they got the judge to say no Nicolau. Nice.

Silver went off the Reservation and gave your lawyer enough rope to finish hanging the client...Your Lawyer screwed up big time by shouting "It's not fair!" To Silver. Could have heard a pin drop as she sat in silence staring at him. I expected to see lasers shoot out of her eyes and ignite Pats hair.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Silver went off the Reservation and gave your lawyer enough rope to finish hanging the client...Your Lawyer screwed up big time by shouting "It's not fair!" To Silver. Could have heard a pin drop as she sat in silence staring at him. I expected to see lasers shoot out of her eyes and ignite Pats hair.

Get back to us next Friday. Your windfall is gone. Count on it.

 

[cleardirect]

Actually, no, they haven't. A group within the APA has, but that hardly amounts to an official position. I actually think that if the lists on our side are merged appropriately, it will make the two remaining lists look much more compatible. Plus, more than half the attrition over the next five years is ours. There are a lot of reasons that APA could embrace a DOH position, especially with protective C&Rs for both sides.

If Judge Silver finds the current situation ripe and rules against USAPA, this will go back to the Ninth ASAP, but I seriously doubt that will happen. I think that the issue will be solved by the Ninth before that, when they rule on the appeal that management made over the DJ, which should be all over by the end of June.

All over and done in June. It amazes me that everyday you prove your ignorance. Would you can to inform us what happens in June with the ninth? Has usapa responded yet! When does that happen? Has the ninth taken the case under advisement? When does that happen?

 

[Bill Brasky]

All over and done in June. It amazes me that everyday you prove your ignorance. Would you can to inform us what happens in June with the ninth? Has usapa responded yet! When does that happen? Has the ninth taken the case under advisement? When does that happen?

The appeal for the DJ is in June. You're still an idiot.

 

[ON2ALK]

The appeal for the DJ is in June. You're still an idiot.

It's moot. That appeal is meaningless.

 

[cleardirect]

The appeal for the DJ is in June. You're still an idiot.

The appeal is due in June. You said they would rule in June. Idiot ball is in your court.


" I think that the issue will be solved by the Ninth before that, when they rule on the appeal that management made over the DJ, which should be all over by the end of June."

 

[Bill Brasky]

It's moot. That appeal is meaningless.

That's what the company said, right before the court refused to dismiss it. I wonder why they refused?

 

[Claxon]

Silver went off the Reservation and gave your lawyer enough rope to finish hanging the client...Your Lawyer screwed up big time by shouting "It's not fair!" To Silver. Could have heard a pin drop as she sat in silence staring at him. I expected to see lasers shoot out of her eyes and ignite Pats hair.

"WELL I DID SAY THEY DID NOT HAVE TO USE THE NICOLAU,OKAY". You should have seen Marty crap his pants when that came out of Silver.

 

[cleardirect]

"WELL I DID SAY THEY DID NOT HAVE TO USE THE NICOLAU,OKAY". You should have seen Marty crap his pants when that came out of Silver.

Now you are telling us you were in court in PHX for the hearing? You saw him crap his pants with your own eyes?

Are you capable of telling the truth or even recognizing it in a passing fashion? You are one sick individual.