April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cleardirect]

Did you bother to read the MOU?

Wow this MOU must be magic because you seem to think it answers all questions for all things. Please point out where the MOU tells me who represented the aaa pilots during the aaa/AWA seniority integration.

Technical questions? Answer carefully.

Who represented the east pilots during the us AAA/AWA merger?

When we all become APA who will represent the American pilots during the seniority integration?

When you figure out the correct answer to those questions you can answer your own question about M/B being window dressing.

 

[cleardirect]

It's official. You are more ignorant than I thought.

In the MOU, it specifies that the merger committee will remain in place until the SLI process and merger is complete. Of course, we don't really know just whom the successor union will be, whether it will be APA, USAPA, or another bargaining unit.

Also, the M/B law spells it out fairly well.

Don't worry about USAPA, there will be no DFR. The Judge will spell it all out for you soon.

You must be able to read the super secret east pilot only version of the MOU. I did a word search on the MOU using complete, committee, merger committee and damn if I can't find anywhere that the MOU says what you said.

"In the MOU, it specifies that the merger committee will remain in place until the SLI process and merger is complete."

Would you point out the page and paragraph in the MOU that will back up your statement.

Plus answer my question of who represented the east pilots during the AAA/ AWA seniority integration and who will represent the American pilots during the us airways/ American merger. Simple tasks for a smart guy like you.

 

[Phoenix]

You are beginning to understand grasshopper.

Enforce the 2005 TA as written. The TA that says the seniority will be the arbitrated list.

The arbitrated list is the Nicolau. Glad you finally admit the reality. Judge Silver will enforce the TA meaning the Nicolau award.

The wholeTA. All of it. Read what Silver said about how binding the TA is. Read what she said about how much it can be altered or replaced.

The time for denial is over. Marty will explain it to you. You have seniority neutrality because you voted for it. If you guys want to participate you have about five days left to do so.

 

[Zone5]

Well, I never flew a zero, but I've flown some American World War II stuff. Some of those had headsets built into the leather caps. My guess would be to maintain communications or keep your head intact in case you whacked it on the canopy while maneuvering. What's the correct answer there Maverick?

Bean

I suppose you're correct, they needed to maintain radio communications. I've got some time flying big round large piston engines and they are LOUD. It just has always seemed to me that wearing a piece of safety gear (a helmet) didn't make a lot of sense considering the mission. Go figure. They had balls and a very high degree of commitment!, you got to give them that! The current air order of battle, under certain circumstances, can require an interceptor pilot to perform a "maneuver" to counter a 911 type of attack in a manner that is not likely to be "survivable", can you imagine finding yourself in that position?

Please don't call me Maverick, a friend of mine, who happens to be the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, took Tom on an "orientation" ride out of Miramar, during the filming of that movie, Tom barfed all over the RIO's scope and the ride was rather short. I actually have done "most" of the things that Tom just pretended to do. Never killed a RIO, never lost an airplane and never "flat hatted" pri-fly (not the way you get to a Topgun slot). Oh, and I almost forgot one of my favorite pet peeves with that movie, we never took showers together after an ACMR sortie! How gay is that, not that there would be anything wrong with such a thing, if that's what your in to.

But I digress, back to hurling insults over money. What a world.


seajay

 

[Zone5]

Hey Marty, do you get it now,.............. THE COURT: So, then, are you not, then, in violation​

of the agreement or the Court's order? I made quite clear --​

do I have to read the Court order to you, too, Mr. Harper?​

MR. HARPER: I don't think -- I'm sure we're not in​

violation because --​

THE COURT: Well, I said they do not have to adopt​

Nicolau. Okay? Page 54, (my personal favorite)

Mine too! Pretty "clear and straight" if you ask me.


seajay

 

[Zone5]

You guys are really losing it.

Now that's REALLY funny coming from you! How "soon" are you going to go for that 330 bid? I bet I get one before you "Captain".


seajay

 

[Zone5]

Marty knows USAPA'a intent. He'll keep that in mind.

Transcript:

What Mr. Syzmanski is talking to you about is the West Pilots never having a ripe claim in this process that we're going to follow now until sometime after the deadline for the award which could be as late as August of 2015. And what he's really talking to you about here in that argument is they want to get to that point in time because the six words that they are going to like most: Final and binding, fair and equitable. That's what's going to come out of the McCaskill-Bond arbitration. They like that because nobody can overturn them then. We will not have a cause of action that will allow us to really overturn a federal final and binding, fair and equitable. Exactly what they got in the Nicolau. That process they agreed to go through and come up with final and binding, fair and equitable. It's going to be good for them down there but not good for us up here and that's what they have taken away.

The other argument he's making to you is that if we
can get it that far, Your Honor, this cause of action is going to be moot. And that's exactly the question you asked. Is the Supreme Court or the Ninth Circuit or even this Court going to allow a process to go forward that allows these West Pilots to get to a point in time when their cause of action is moot?
That is their intent. That's what they are trying to argue here.

The West voted overwhelmingly for a process, the MOU, that makes the NIC moot. Judge Silver is not going to allow you to try to put the tooth paste back in the tube.


seajay

 

[nycbusdriver]

Maybe GE or Mitsubishi or Honda could come and speak. Gee, what does it matter what they say. Silver is obligated to enforce the 2005 TA as it is written. And she will regardless of any peanut gallery commentary.

I think Embraer, Boeing and Airbus need to be heard. Maybe Hewlitt Packard, too. And, how about the AFA the TWU, the IAM, and the Teamsters. Anthem Blue Cross/Blue Shield? UnitedHealth?

Let's hear from ALPA, for old times' sake.

 

[prechilill]

Just read the transcripts- USAPs got their a$$ets kicked!! No question about it, DOH is DOA.
Game over for the angry FOs...

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hey listen up you scab union supporting POS....you held your own wages down for the last 7 years....thanks for the occasional profit sharing check, and the $200,000 grand more I made than my east counterpart. Your #### wages really helped out during those tough times when oil was $160/bl.

The West is not in any hole at all...but uscaba sure is....the way I see it one of 3 things will come out of Silver's court.

1. dismissed...uscaba is screwed. The company does not do Jack til single carrier status, and the APA takes over and flushes the usapa turd right out of the New American.

2. Injunction granted...ustupid is screwed, but this is the best option for them. At least they can try to get an appeal through before single carrier status.

3. 3 parties enter MB process. Oh man is uscaba screwed. As a party the West can guarantee an impasse and force arbitration. I don't know if you have been informed lately, but the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. As a matter of fact, it has been stated by the company in every litigation to date that they would never negotiate a different SLI than the Nic, so, it appears that at the snapshot of Aug 2013 POR, the only list uscaba would ever have in a stand alone LCC was the Nic. Uscaba had absolutely no means to impose a list, and even less to negotiate away from the Nic, it was an inescapable fact at a stand alone LCC that the Nic is the combined list.

That is what is meant by final and binding.

Now go lick your wounds, wait and see if Silver orders the injunction, cause if she does not, and we end up in a three way, you will be here in 3 years wondering how the Fudge Collelo ended up 300 numbers junior to Odell and the 517 now have a West pilot and and 3 APA pilots between each and every one of them.

You have no DFR if it does not go DOH, and it won't. There are 3

No, I think you personally are screwed. Sooner or later that random drug test will catch up to you. There can be no other explanation for your delusional rant. Get help before the company and the FAA find out.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You are beginning to understand grasshopper.

Enforce the 2005 TA as written. The TA that says the seniority will be the arbitrated list.

The arbitrated list is the Nicolau. Glad you finally admit the reality. Judge Silver will enforce the TA meaning the Nicolau award.

If the 2005 TA is enforced as written, what do you think will be the results of the mandatory ratification votes by east and west before implementation?

Face it. You are totally screwed.

 

[nycbusdriver]

So usapa has the west on the ropes and our only chance is to give up?

Should we except DOH and the C&R as written now before you start lowering them or taking them away?

Yes, you should take it.

But I doubt USAPA would consider "lowering them or taking them away."

 

[Zone5]

I don't think I would want to enter into a 3 way as the smallest airline with 1 crew base and no big airplanes and least LOS arbitrators or not. Oh, I forgot you had the nic at on time.

Right! All this chest thumping bravado about "forcing" an arbitration on the MOU process is really hilarious! They are the smallest number of pilots, they bring the least to the table in terms of bases (base), routes and aircraft number and size. Yup, they will be "large and in charge".


seajay

 

[Zone5]

You are beginning to understand grasshopper.

Enforce the 2005 TA as written. The TA that says the seniority will be the arbitrated list.

The arbitrated list is the Nicolau. Glad you finally admit the reality. Judge Silver will enforce the TA meaning the Nicolau award.

NOT!


seajay

 

[end_of_alpa]

The APA has now weighted into the case. They asked the court to be part of this case.

Now what do you suppose the APA is going to say?

Allow the usapa boys to do what they want so we can do the same thing to them.

Maybe tell the judge to give usapa DOH?

Just maybe they will tell the court that an arbitrated list is an arbitrated list.

Where have you seen that the APA wants in? What right do THEY have to negotiate what we submit to them in M/B? I really do hope the Supreme Court weighs in on this and sets the LAW straight for you West low lifes.