April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Black Swan]

Anybody heard anything about the mandatory discussions that start tomorrow?

USAPA should bring a PowerPoint presentation on RLA law, and educate her honor. It was embarrassing to see her defer to a corporate shark with a huge vested interest in derailing labor in the name of a corporate transaction. She should have known better.
Time to have the NMB notified if she attempts to interfere again. These discussions are totally out of her jurisdiction.

 

[cleardirect]

Which law specifically?

You still think Nic was federal law?

Did I list the Nicolau?

I listed federal laws.

You guys are really losing it.

 

[snapthis]

Marty knows USAPA'a intent. He'll keep that in mind.

Transcript:

What Mr. Syzmanski is talking to you about is the West Pilots never having a ripe claim in this process that we're going to follow now until sometime after the deadline for the award which could be as late as August of 2015. And what he's really talking to you about here in that argument is they want to get to that point in time because the six words that they are going to like most: Final and binding, fair and equitable. That's what's going to come out of the McCaskill-Bond arbitration. They like that because nobody can overturn them then. We will not have a cause of action that will allow us to really overturn a federal final and binding, fair and equitable. Exactly what they got in the Nicolau. That process they agreed to go through and come up with final and binding, fair and equitable. It's going to be good for them down there but not good for us up here and that's what they have taken away.

The other argument he's making to you is that if we
can get it that far, Your Honor, this cause of action is going to be moot. And that's exactly the question you asked. Is the Supreme Court or the Ninth Circuit or even this Court going to allow a process to go forward that allows these West Pilots to get to a point in time when their cause of action is moot?
That is their intent. That's what they are trying to argue here.

 

[cleardirect]

The APA has now weighted into the case. They asked the court to be part of this case.

Now what do you suppose the APA is going to say?

Allow the usapa boys to do what they want so we can do the same thing to them.

Maybe tell the judge to give usapa DOH?

Just maybe they will tell the court that an arbitrated list is an arbitrated list.

 

[AWE Dog]

Judge Silver is really trying to help the west. I think she is out of bounds already.

 

[Phoenix]

The APA has now weighted into the case. They asked the court to be part of this case.

Now what do you suppose the APA is going to say?

Allow the usapa boys to do what they want so we can do the same thing to them.

Maybe tell the judge to give usapa DOH?

Just maybe they will tell the court that an arbitrated list is an arbitrated list.

Maybe GE or Mitsubishi or Honda could come and speak. Gee, what does it matter what they say. Silver is obligated to enforce the 2005 TA as it is written. And she will regardless of any peanut gallery commentary.

 

[Phoenix]

Silver is really trying to help the west. I think she is out of bounds already.

I think Marty is smart enough to see that but how motivated is he to explain that to his clients that are in denial? I suppose his interest in this whole mess might be rapidly crumbling since the possibility of being paid via a huge windfall of damages is now more remote than Pluto.

He should just pull up a youtube of Kenny Rodgers "The Gambler", put it on continuous loop, and walk out the door...

 

[Phoenix]

Marty knows USAPA'a intent. He'll keep that in mind.

Transcript:

What Mr. Syzmanski is talking to you about is the West Pilots never having a ripe claim in this process that we're going to follow now until sometime after the deadline for the award which could be as late as August of 2015. And what he's really talking to you about here in that argument is they want to get to that point in time because the six words that they are going to like most: Final and binding, fair and equitable. That's what's going to come out of the McCaskill-Bond arbitration. They like that because nobody can overturn them then. We will not have a cause of action that will allow us to really overturn a federal final and binding, fair and equitable. Exactly what they got in the Nicolau. That process they agreed to go through and come up with final and binding, fair and equitable. It's going to be good for them down there but not good for us up here and that's what they have taken away.

The other argument he's making to you is that if we
can get it that far, Your Honor, this cause of action is going to be moot. And that's exactly the question you asked. Is the Supreme Court or the Ninth Circuit or even this Court going to allow a process to go forward that allows these West Pilots to get to a point in time when their cause of action is moot?
That is their intent. That's what they are trying to argue here.

She understands AOL's probability for success once this is ripe is so remote they will be unable to find a lawyer to work only on a commissions basis.


I think Silver wanted to clap and give Marty a standing ovation for his final performance that was so eloquent. Think of it as Marty has already finished with his encore.

 

[PullUp]

Judge Silver is really trying to help the west. I think she is out of bounds already.

Don't fool yourself. She is not 'helping' either the west OR the east. She is under pressure from the guys with $$ to make this thing go away - and whatever is the most expedient and airtight - that's what will happen.
But I agree, she is venturing beyond her jurisdiction into rewriting and reworking established federal statutes.
Just goes to show how much influence money has.

 

[Phoenix]

Don't fool yourself. She is not 'helping' either the west OR the east. She is under pressure from the guys with $$ to make this thing go away - and whatever is the most expedient and airtight - that's what will happen.
But I agree, she is venturing beyond her jurisdiction into rewriting and reworking established federal statutes.
Just goes to show how much influence money has.

Forcing parties to meet in a way that is probably outside of the bylaws is definitely straying, but USAPA can't complain too much for the help to get AOL to participate.

Do you think Silver has the stones (or "money" has the influence) to help USAPA even more and actually assign them a seniority list by fiat?

 

[PullUp]

Forcing parties to meet in a way that is probably outside of the bylaws is definitely straying, but USAPA can't complain too much for the help to get AOL to participate.

Do you think Silver has the stones (or "money" has the influence) to help USAPA even more and actually assign them a seniority list by fiat?

No, I think the endgame will either be a settlement with the plaintiff withdrawing their suit or a dismissal on ripeness.
I think the judge would prefer a withdrawal because nobody can appeal that to the 9th.
Cheers.

 

[nic4us]

Just because you repeat binding arbitration for 7 years when it never bound, means you are wrong. Read what the judge said. She said it doesn t have to be used. Snap this is another spinner, with no truth to anything.
It is high time to serve the company with the DOH list, and they accept it. I am over compromising with a group who effectively held our pay down willfully and sued us daily. Every other group on the property went DOH in this merger. We are next or there is a DFR.
The West was warned at WYE River. They can now fight their way out of the hole they dug. Remember this when you want to negotiate- they wanted to put guys with 17 yrs of uninterrupted service below new hires. And then they screamed foul when they couldn t pretty much rape all of us.

Hey listen up you scab union supporting POS....you held your own wages down for the last 7 years....thanks for the occasional profit sharing check, and the $200,000 grand more I made than my east counterpart. Your #### wages really helped out during those tough times when oil was $160/bl.

The West is not in any hole at all...but uscaba sure is....the way I see it one of 3 things will come out of Silver's court.

1. dismissed...uscaba is screwed. The company does not do Jack til single carrier status, and the APA takes over and flushes the usapa turd right out of the New American.

2. Injunction granted...ustupid is screwed, but this is the best option for them. At least they can try to get an appeal through before single carrier status.

3. 3 parties enter MB process. Oh man is uscaba screwed. As a party the West can guarantee an impasse and force arbitration. I don't know if you have been informed lately, but the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. As a matter of fact, it has been stated by the company in every litigation to date that they would never negotiate a different SLI than the Nic, so, it appears that at the snapshot of Aug 2013 POR, the only list uscaba would ever have in a stand alone LCC was the Nic. Uscaba had absolutely no means to impose a list, and even less to negotiate away from the Nic, it was an inescapable fact at a stand alone LCC that the Nic is the combined list.

That is what is meant by final and binding.

Now go lick your wounds, wait and see if Silver orders the injunction, cause if she does not, and we end up in a three way, you will be here in 3 years wondering how the Fudge Collelo ended up 300 numbers junior to Odell and the 517 now have a West pilot and and 3 APA pilots between each and every one of them.

You have no DFR if it does not go DOH, and it won't. There are 3

 

[nic4us]

Forcing parties to meet in a way that is probably outside of the bylaws is definitely straying, but USAPA can't complain too much for the help to get AOL to participate.

Do you think Silver has the stones (or "money" has the influence) to help USAPA even more and actually assign them a seniority list by fiat?

Clueless!

 

[traderjake]

3 parties enter MB process.

As a party the West can guarantee an impasse and force arbitration.

Bingo.

 

[Phoenix]

Hey listen up you scab union supporting POS....you held your own wages down for the last 7 years....thanks for the occasional profit sharing check, and the $200,000 grand more I made than my east counterpart. Your #### wages really helped out during those tough times when oil was $160/bl.

The West is not in any hole at all...but uscaba sure is....the way I see it one of 3 things will come out of Silver's court.

1. dismissed...uscaba is screwed. The company does not do Jack til single carrier status, and the APA takes over and flushes the usapa turd right out of the New American.

2. Injunction granted...ustupid is screwed, but this is the best option for them. At least they can try to get an appeal through before single carrier status.

3. 3 parties enter MB process. Oh man is uscaba screwed. As a party the West can guarantee an impasse and force arbitration. I don't know if you have been informed lately, but the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. As a matter of fact, it has been stated by the company in every litigation to date that they would never negotiate a different SLI than the Nic, so, it appears that at the snapshot of Aug 2013 POR, the only list uscaba would ever have in a stand alone LCC was the Nic. Uscaba had absolutely no means to impose a list, and even less to negotiate away from the Nic, it was an inescapable fact at a stand alone LCC that the Nic is the combined list.

That is what is meant by final and binding.

Now go lick your wounds, wait and see if Silver orders the injunction, cause if she does not, and we end up in a three way, you will be here in 3 years wondering how the Fudge Collelo ended up 300 numbers junior to Odell and the 517 now have a West pilot and and 3 APA pilots between each and every one of them.

You have no DFR if it does not go DOH, and it won't. There are 3

Yes. We'll mark your vote in favor of settlement. Glad you are back and feeling well again.