April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

We haven't heard from the stock clerk in quite a while. You remember him, the labor law expert who knows everything about the RLA and maintains that we can get around the Nicolau no matter what. Maybe the westies should hire him to go tell Judge Silver how wrong she is.

Or nic4us. I guess he is too busy counting his damages.

 

[Pi brat]

Alot of things are still in play, I don't think anything is 'won' or 'lost' by anyone yet. Whatever happens, happens. Life wll go on.

With Judge Silver I don't think any of us knows the outcome for sure. She may have some surprises left.

I think for you, me and most folks life will go on, but I wonder about some of these guys.

 

[Pi brat]

Gary just put out a message saying that he had a heart stent procedure after chest pain and is feeling much better. Temporally turned over president duties to Bradford.

 

[Phoenix]

What is your problem with usapa going away?

The APA has a duty to represent you fairly just like usapa has a duty to fairly represent the west.

Are you concerned that the APA might do to you what usapa has been doing to the west?

Usapa has told the court that they represent the west just fine. Do you think the APA is a less honest and fair organization than usapa?

Once the NMB declares a new bargaining agent where does usapa get its authority to represent anyone?

Did you bother to read the MOU?

 

[cleardirect]

Did you bother to read the MOU?

Does the MOU override federal law?

Can the MOU be used at avoid duty of fair representation?

You guys are leaning hard on the MOU but it does not support the wieght of your arguments.

I ask question but none of you guys will answer any of them. What is the problem? No answers?

 

[Bill Brasky]

Does the MOU override federal law?

Can the MOU be used at avoid duty of fair representation?

You guys are leaning hard on the MOU but it does not support the wieght of your arguments.

I ask question but none of you guys will answer any of them. What is the problem? No answers?

Be specific. What Federal law? You mean the ones that Judge Silver will uphold? You're a bigger idiot than we thought (that's a REAL challenge) if you believe that internal negotiations are against Federal law. The Judge even stated in the last trial that the TA from LOA 96 is amendable by agreement with the union and the company.

You guys voted for the MOU by a margin of 98%. It's gonna be pretty hard for you to argue that there wasn't something in it for you. That fact has not escaped the Judge.

Come on, stop stuttering. Tell us just what Federal law you're talking about.

 

[Phoenix]

Actually, she amended the order to create a west class. I think that for the purposes of this action it remains in force.

Not sure why USAPA wrote this on the Joint Status Update right before the hearing this week...

"USAPA has advised Plaintiffs that it objects to Plaintiffs’ use of the term “West Pilots” to describe themselves as no class has been certified."

Even so, If a class has not been certified with regard to the case at hand I don't think it would take much to change that.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Not sure why USAPA wrote this on the Joint Status Update right before the hearing this week...

"USAPA has advised Plaintiffs that it objects to Plaintiffs’ use of the term “West Pilots” to describe themselves as no class has been certified."

Even so, If a class has not been certified with regard to the case at hand I don't think it would take much to change that.

Maybe they were referring to the fact that there is not a separate class in terms of bargaining units sanctioned by the NMB, which ruled that there is only one bargaining unit for all pilots at LCC. Legally, the "class" specified in the Judge's Order only means that the ruling pertains to all of them, that they can't start "piling on" by filing individual lawsuits over the same thing. Again, not a lawyer, but I have seen Matlock a couple of times.

I wonder if he would have objected if they called themselves "westicles"?

 

[Phoenix]

Does the MOU override federal law?

Can the MOU be used at avoid duty of fair representation?

You guys are leaning hard on the MOU but it does not support the wieght of your arguments.

I ask question but none of you guys will answer any of them. What is the problem? No answers?

It all makes sense now. You seem to have an inadequate perspective of how much "freedom to negotiate" means to the court, nor do you understand how much they actually hold parties of a contract to ALL of the conditions of said contract. You simply don't appear to understand the Nic is predicated upon all the terms of the TA... All of them. Don't underestimate the preeminence of the MOU. Nullity of all else means nullity.

 

[Beancounter]

I like "Air Force of Kamikazes"! Maybe they could answer the age old question, "Why did Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?"

seajay

Well, I never flew a zero, but I've flown some American World War II stuff. Some of those had headsets built into the leather caps. My guess would be to maintain communications or keep your head intact in case you whacked it on the canopy while maneuvering. What's the correct answer there Maverick?

Bean

 

[CallawayGolf]

Well, I never flew a zero, but I've flown some American World War II stuff. Some of those had headsets built into the leather caps. My guess would be to maintain communications or keep your head intact in case you whacked it on the canopy while maneuvering. What's the correct answer there Maverick?

Bean

Or perhaps so they could still guide their craft to its intended target even if they were grazed by anti-aircraft artillery.

 

[cleardirect]

It all makes sense now. You seem to have an inadequate perspective of how much "freedom to negotiate" means to the court, nor do you understand how much they actually hold parties of a contract to ALL of the conditions of said contract. You simply don't appear to understand the Nic is predicated upon all the terms of the TA... All of them. Don't underestimate the preeminence of the MOU. Nullity of all else means nullity.

Freedom to negotiate does not mean that you can ignore or negotiate around federal law. Do you not understand that?

NMB, RLA, DFR all supersede any MOU, T/A contract that a union might try and negotiate.

The MOU does not allow usapa to exist after the NMB rules. The MOU does not relieve usapa of any DFR burden.

 

[EastUS1]

The MOU does not relieve usapa of any DFR burden.

But, but....Didn't 98% of your voting "spartans" enthusiastically approve it? Truly; "youse" guys offer up a never-ending source of dependable chuckles. Flash-forward to some future courtroom: But your Honor!...Even though 98% voted for it, we all secretly knew it was really illegal and unfair to us!..But no matter how grossly unfair, well, uh, yeah; we voted for it anyway....umm...but only as part of our grand plan to sue everbody forever!..'Cuzz we'se rilly smurt an' clevah an' all 'dat!...Youse needz jes' asks us!

Sigh! Is that about right?

 

[Bill Brasky]

Freedom to negotiate does not mean that you can ignore or negotiate around federal law. Do you not understand that?

NMB, RLA, DFR all supersede any MOU, T/A contract that a union might try and negotiate.

The MOU does not allow usapa to exist after the NMB rules. The MOU does not relieve usapa of any DFR burden.

It's official. You are more ignorant than I thought.

In the MOU, it specifies that the merger committee will remain in place until the SLI process and merger is complete. Of course, we don't really know just whom the successor union will be, whether it will be APA, USAPA, or another bargaining unit.

Also, the M/B law spells it out fairly well.

Don't worry about USAPA, there will be no DFR. The Judge will spell it all out for you soon.

 

[luvthe9]

Hey Marty, do you get it now,.............. THE COURT: So, then, are you not, then, in violation​

of the agreement or the Court's order? I made quite clear --​

do I have to read the Court order to you, too, Mr. Harper?​

MR. HARPER: I don't think -- I'm sure we're not in​

violation because --​

THE COURT: Well, I said they do not have to adopt​

Nicolau. Okay? Page 54, (my personal favorite)