April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

Misery loves company.

Who's miserable?

 

[snapthis]

Who's miserable?

Kinda up and down day in court yesterday. Fine today.

Haven't heard much on Gary's recovery. How is he doing?

 

[EastUS1]

Let's get together, say, five years from today.

Why rush things? Seriously though; that works for me, as I'd be afforded a "spartan"-free cockpit for the duration of my time. I'll properly note I've no universal assignment of the west people as being complete jerks, by any means, and wouldn't at all mind working with some I've spoken with either "here" or in person, but never being afflicted by a great many of their heroic little "knights" wouldn't much distress me at all.

 

[Beancounter]

The sun rises tomorrow. The west collect their attrition, the east collect theirs, as does those at American collect their own. Why even merge? The only real benefit is for the company. Let's get together, say, five years from today.

If I had to wager, I'd say more like 2 years. Think of it like an 8 year fence. Of course because of their large number of widebodies I'd guess there will be additional fences for American.

Bean

 

[Beancounter]

Pretty much shows how clueless he is.

The smartest guy in the room clueless? Well, there's a take. Don't worry, while the 9th may not be as knowledgeable about law as Mr. Siegel, they carry a lot more authority.

Bean

 

[EastUS1]

Haven't heard much on Gary's recovery. How is he doing?

Afraid I'm equally in the dark there snap. I can only hope he's doing as well as possible and will recover fully. We can all be grateful for living in times where the tech exists to do anything useful with cardiac issues....speaking from the viewpoint of a younger brother who's elder survived quintuple bypass protocols after an attack, and has been doing very well for nearly a decade. I'll make the optimistic assumption that Mr. Hummel will be basically ok.

 

[high*flyer]

THE COURT: Here's what I need: Briefing on​

McCaskill-Bond issues and that is the applicability of the 1978​

CAB precedence now as to whether or not there is a -- this​

Court -- those precedents are now applicable and whether this​

Court has the authority to then order what occurred previously,​

that is before 1978 where everybody, whether there was a​

substantial difference of opinion amongst the employees, the​

material employees, whether or not everybody had a right to be​

at the table for the purpose of determining here seniority

And the second thing, counsel -- don't answer this​

today but are you going to stipulate to the facts that are​

relevant for the Court determining whether or not there is a​

violation of the duty of fair representation? I have heard --​

it has been briefed to some extent but I have heard here today​

that there perhaps would be a stipulation as to what those​

facts are or are we going to have to have a hearing where I'm​

going to have to make credibility determinations which is only​

going to slow the process down, and I don't think it's going to​

be of benefit to anyone.​

Finally, if I were to find

be of benefit to anyone.​

Finally, if I were to find a violation of the duty of​

fair representation, I want briefed what the remedy could be or​

should be.​

And then, finally, number four, as we did the last​

time, there has been at least some suggestions by both counsel​

in good faith that you might be able to work this out. I am​

going to strong recommend that you do that if you can and do so​

in short order so that this issue of seniority will finally be​

resolved and we can go forward with this merger and fairly and​

equitably be resolved as I ordered previously. And I am not​

going to repeat my order.

So you are -- I am going to order you to meet,​

confer, and inasmuch as, Mr. Siegel, this is obviously​

something that is very important to you and American Airlines,​

if you can engage in the negotiations, apparently -- you're not

an arbitrator but apparently perhaps you have tried to do this​

because of your own interest, the company's interest. Let's​

get it done.​

So today is the 14th and let me hear from you on --​

by the end of the day on the 21st.

 

[high*flyer]

I don't understand, according to cleardirect, AMR told the court they needed a ruling, and US told the court it "was" ripe...

 

[Phoenix]

Pretty much shows how clueless he is.

He is probably just doing his best to protect the company through the merger. He pushes ripeness to eliminate the unknowns for the UCC and supports the West to ensure future liability for AA to the West remains at 0$.

AMR wants the judge to take no action that will harm or delay the merger. If Silver does any thing that forces or stacks seniority before the POR it is exactly opposite to what everyone in all parties negotiated and voted to do by agreeing to the MOU.

Upending the MOU doesn't seem like a good idea and I don't think her friends would sit by and let her drive drunk.

 

[EastUS1]

I don't understand, according to cleardirect, AMR told the court they needed a ruling, and US told the court it "was" ripe...

It's also a full day past prechill's "T-" countdown, an' I ain't seein' no rockets' red glare at all...at least not of the incoming variety. But then: "St. Nic" wasn't actually "coming to town" in December of 2007 either, or for that matter ever, it would seem. While too often a callous sob; I don't have the blackened heart needed to do so, so someone else can ask her about her arrogantly voiced intent to take a left seat in a 330 shortly.

 

[Bill Brasky]

The smartest guy in the room clueless? Well, there's a take. Don't worry, while the 9th may not be as knowledgeable about law as Mr. Siegel, they carry a lot more authority.

Bean

If he's your smartest guy in the room, it's no wonder you're losing. Pretty much EVERY point he made is wrong. Just wait and see what Judge Silver says. Just because he has the most expensive suit, it doesn't mean he's the smartest guy in the room.

 

[Phoenix]

If he's your smartest guy in the room, it's no wonder you're losing. Pretty much EVERY point he made is wrong. Just wait and see what Judge Silver says. Just because he has the most expensive suit, it doesn't mean he's the smartest guy in the room.

It wasn't his expensive suit. He said "RIPE". He is a frikin' JEAN-YUSS!

 

[EastUS1]

He is probably just doing his best to protect the company through the merger. He pushes ripeness to eliminate the unknowns for the UCC and supports the West to ensure future liability for AA to the West remains at 0$.

AMR wants the judge to take no action that will harm or delay the merger. If Silver does any thing that forces or stacks seniority before the POR it is exactly opposite to what everyone in all parties negotiated and voted to do by agreeing to the MOU.

Upending the MOU doesn't seem like a good idea and I don't think her friends would sit by and let her drive drunk.

Agreed.

 

[Zone5]

I see various folks quoting only part of the transcript and flapping their jaws trying to make it lean to their point of view. None of which is really what happened if you read the whole thing. Both sides got grilled.

End result that I got out of it? Company would prefer a 3 way, USAPA is open to trying to find some middle ground(per judges orders)..failing that they will go onto the M/B with 2 DOH lists (east and west) and go from there. AOL is "NIC or Nothing" till the end.

Judge Silver seemed to be agreeable to all the above EXCEPT the Nic or Nothing part. Think she is tired of the same lawsuit coming up every few months.

Pretty sure NIC is dead and buried at this point. DOH with C and R's, prior to M/B process unlikely. Unless the west pilots agree to sit down with USAPA to see what can be worked out (wont happen, see Nic or nothing part) I think the judge has had enough and will rule in a fashion that will guarantee a 3 way after the POR.

Silver spanked both lawyers to a degree but she basically shut down anything Marty had to say concerning forcing the NIC. So thats not going to be an issue. It will be something as yet unseen that is in the middle or a 3 way in my opinion.

I agree. The court will require an attempt by the East and West to reach a compromise consensus prior to the MOU. Time to do so is of the essence and is in short supply, therefore and because of all the well established intransigence in the positions at both extremes, it's not very likely to occur prior to the POR.

There will be a three-way, based on a snap-shot taken of all three lists and fleets at the POR and the M/B process, as per the MOU, will commence. Nobody knows how that process will end up, but it won't be the NIC or straight DOH and it won't involve the use of a stapler.


seajay

 

[Beancounter]

If he's your smartest guy in the room, it's no wonder you're losing. Pretty much EVERY point he made is wrong. Just wait and see what Judge Silver says. Just because he has the most expensive suit, it doesn't mean he's the smartest guy in the room.

I don't think I won, but I'm still trying to figure out what I've lost. Looking at the numbers I could tell you that you've lost almost a billion dollars, but you might not feel that way.

Bean