April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Bill Brasky]

You are as ignorant as Claxon.

In the words of Col. Jessup, ""you can't handle the truth". Better go find out how to order a "code red". Slam down is coming west.

I am, if by "ignorant" you mean "painfully honest".

 

[Claxon]

You are as ignorant as Claxon.

Careful, my self esteem is very fragile.

How about we let the folks read the transcripts. Judge Silver is trying hard to be a moderator, not her job and will have no legal standing, but I admire her for trying. In the end she will just issue a dismissal order. The nic is dead.

Transcripts, of May 14th;

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West_Pilot_DFR_DJ/Addington_v._USAPA_Transcripts.pdf

 

[EastUS1]

All this is going to make for an interesting day on the 17th with our meet and greet,

Indeed. Good luck with that, and have fun spinning it all as best you can manage, mighty "spartans".

To continue donating money into a futile, black hole....etc.

 

[EastUS1]

Why in the world would anyone expect the west to "compromise" now?

No worries there. I certainly wouldn't...unless "youse" group's average IQ magically increased by at least 20 points overnight.

 

[EastUS1]

We haven't lost anything. Take your C&R's and put them where the sun don't shine.

"Your bravado is nothing more than entertainment. I am laughing at you." Speaking of which; the latest AOL update follows:

https://www.youtube....h?v=zDAmPIq29ro

 

[Bill Brasky]

"Your bravado is nothing more than entertainment. I am laughing at you." Speaking of which; the latest AOL update follows:

https://www.youtube....h?v=zDAmPIq29ro

I think Ames and Prechil are driving to court on the 21st in a big cake that says "EAT ME"!

I hope Res is okay. I'm guessing that after yesterday he gave himself a stroke.

 

[PullUp]

Big money is driving this show in Phoenix. Big money is influence and power. Silver realizes that she needs to bring this conflict to a resolution - an airtight resolution that is not going to in any way affect the pending merger.
The airlines want a quick resolution and it doesn't matter to them how it gets done (except if it will cost them money).
The issue is not ripe - no harm has occurred.
The MOU maintains status quo after the POR approval, but nullifies all previous agreements, including LOA96 (the one that talks about how east/west seniority will be integrated). Because the terms of that agreement were never fullfilled, we are left with two lists at LCC.
Can M/Bond put the east & west lists together? No, because they have the same union representing them. M/B says that in that case, the lists shall be integrated by union policy, i.e., the NMB is hands off.
So, can there be a three way? It can happen at the negotiation phase, but not at the arbitration phase. If USAPA shows up with two lists for arbitration it will be a violation of federal law for the arbitrator to integrate the east and west lists.
Oh, the dilemma! It falls on USAPA, the designated representative for all LCC pilots, to produce a single list. How? According to M/B (federal law), they must use internal union policy.
Since this dispute revolves around LOA96, which will be nullified upon the POR approval, ripeness can never be achieved.
My prediction is: the judge will dismiss for lack of ripeness, advise the plantiffs that their case will never be ripe and that union policy will dictate how the union presents their data to the arbitrator, if it ever gets to arbitration.
AOL has no standing in negotiations with LCC, AA, or an arbitrator, as USAPA is the duly elected representative under the RLA.
There is nothing to appeal as the ninth already ruled on ripeness.
Cheers.

 

[Piedmont1984]

PullUp

Why is it a violation of federal law if USAPA submits two lists for arbitration?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Absolutly, but I voted on that process knowing full well M/B would rule and be final and binding.

But I don't work under the MOU right now. I work under LOA 96 and the guarentee by my union of vote in THAT process.

In order to get a combined seniority lest BEFORE the POR, we all have to ratify it in a CBA.

Chances of that...Zero.

Greeter

Exactly.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

PullUp

Why is it a violation of federal law if USAPA submits two lists for arbitration?

It is not. We are the bargaining agent for two pilot groups. We represent them both in M/B. we will submit two lists and bargain in good faith for both groups. If the West Class disagreed with that premise, they should not have voted for the MOU.

Greeter

 

[mrbreeze]

No worries there. I certainly wouldn't...unless "youse" group's average IQ magically increased by at least 20 points overnight.

I have never heard of anyone doubling their IQ, especially overnight.

 

[CallawayGolf]

It is not. We are the bargaining agent for two pilot groups. We represent them both in M/B. we will submit two lists and bargain in good faith for both groups. If the West Class disagreed with that premise, they should not have voted for the MOU.

Greeter

Baring an injunction from Silver to use the NIC, which seems unlikely after yesterday, I would agree that three lists going to M/B arbitration appears to be to most likely scenario going forward.

My question is how long will USAPA be around to work through the SLI integration with the APA and M/B once the merger transaction takes place this fall (assuming nothing blocks the merger from happening)? The APA will file for single carrier status as soon as they are permitted to do so I suspect. With no representational election required, once that happens I presume that APA will inherit all of USAPA (AAA/HP) contract obligations as well as the seniority list(s). If USAPA is de-certified prior to the completion or even the beginning of the M/B process, who will advocate for east and/or west pilots against AMR pilot's position? At that point APA can't advocate for any one position over the others given their own DFR limitations, so does APA setup a merger committee consisting of equal representation of all three groups? I'm curious what the interpretation of the RLA and M/B statutes are in that regard.

Thanks.

 

[PullUp]

PullUp

Why is it a violation of federal law if USAPA submits two lists for arbitration?

M/B says that if two groups are represented by the same union, the law does not apply to them - it is the responsibility of the union and it's policies that govern.

 

[PullUp]

Baring an injunction from Silver to use the NIC, which seems unlikely after yesterday, I would agree that three lists going to M/B arbitration appears to be to most likely scenario going forward.

My question is how long will USAPA be around to work through the SLI integration with the APA and M/B once the merger transaction takes place this fall (assuming nothing blocks the merger from happening)? The APA will file for single carrier status as soon as they are permitted to do so I suspect. With no representational election required, once that happens I presume that APA will inherit all of USAPA (AAA/HP) contract obligations as well as the seniority list(s). If USAPA is de-certified prior to the completion or even the beginning of the M/B process, who will advocate for east and/or west pilots against AMR pilot's position? At that point APA can't advocate for any one position over the others given their own DFR limitations, so does APA setup a merger committee consisting of equal representation of all three groups? I'm curious what the interpretation of the RLA and M/B statutes are in that regard.

Thanks.

It's in the MOU. USAPA continues to represent it's membership (only for purposes of SLI) until the SLI process is complete and there is a single AA list.
Cheers.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Baring an injunction from Silver to use the NIC, which seems unlikely after yesterday, I would agree that three lists going to M/B arbitration appears to be to most likely scenario going forward.

My question is how long will USAPA be around to work through the SLI integration with the APA and M/B once the merger transaction takes place this fall (assuming nothing blocks the merger from happening)? The APA will file for single carrier status as soon as they are permitted to do so I suspect. With no representational election required, once that happens I presume that APA will inherit all of USAPA (AAA/HP) contract obligations as well as the seniority list(s). If USAPA is de-certified prior to the completion or even the beginning of the M/B process, who will advocate for east and/or west pilots against AMR pilot's position? At that point APA can't advocate for any one position over the others given their own DFR limitations, so does APA setup a merger committee consisting of equal representation of all three groups? I'm curious what the interpretation of the RLA and M/B statutes are in that regard.

Thanks.

USAPA will represent all US Airways pilots in the M/B process until there is a final product. I have to go fly, but will walk you through it later.

Greeter