April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

Of course there can be compromise. But any product of such an effort would have to first be ratified in a CBA by this pilot group. Judges can direct parties to compromise, negotiate, give in, etc....but in the end the RLA says I get a vote. No list will be "imposed." How do I know? Because after 6 years no court or judge has been able to "impose" the NIC.

The West Class is a day late and dollar short finally coming to the realization the NIC will never be the list. Any possible new product of this recent order that contains any trace of that monstrosity will not pass vote.

And if my union chooses to use a list I did not vote on, I will have my own DFR.

Greeter

I think you lose the mandatory vote for any list if the POR gets signed. Your right to vote disappears with the simultaneous nullificiation of the old TA. And the Nic goes down the crapper with it.

 

[snapthis]

Appeals are NOT automatic. The court has to allow it, and the Appeals court has to accept it. Marty didn't get spanked alone, all the westies did, with their "Nic or nothing" attitude. And more is on the way.

I want to see how Marty tries to spin this so that he can get his cash. It's getting awful hard to see any way he can pull off even a minor victory.

This is a loit closer to being over than you think.

I seriously doubt you were in the courtroom, if you were, you must have forgotten to take out the earplugs. She made it clear that DOH or nothing is not going to be acceptable. C&R's are not going to make the grade.

Now, what is your seniority proposal? You can't keep presentlng the same list you have in the past.

You can't have the DOH or nothing jihad imposed on the West.

What is your Plan B?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I think you lose the mandatory vote for any list if the POR gets signed. Your right to vote disappears with the simultaneous nullificiation of the old TA. And the Nic goes down the crapper with it.

Absolutly, but I voted on that process knowing full well M/B would rule and be final and binding.

But I don't work under the MOU right now. I work under LOA 96 and the guarentee by my union of vote in THAT process.

In order to get a combined seniority lest BEFORE the POR, we all have to ratify it in a CBA.

Chances of that...Zero.

Greeter

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I seriously doubt you were in the courtroom, if you were, you must have forgotten to take out the earplugs. She made it clear that DOH or nothing is not going to be acceptable. C&R's are not going to make the grade.

Now, what is your seniority proposal? You can't keep presentlng the same list you have in the past.

You can't have the DOH or nothing jihad imposed on the West.

What is your Plan B?

Plan B is she declares ripeness and dismisses on lack of evidence for a DFR. The rest is all smoke. She is doing her level best to solve this, but in the end she will rule on the law.

Greeter

 

[snapthis]

On the subject of compromise, I would say ratification of a east/west JCBA with a compromise seniority scheme is unrealistic. There will be no 'LCC only' JCBA because we have moved on to the MOU and MTA.

Compromise means both sides must first acknowledge there will be no DOH and no Nic. Whatever is left, if agreed to by the majority of both east and west pilots, certainly falls within the reasonable definition of a LUP and will most likely prevail against any DFR challenge - or at least any damages will be tolerable.

There is no official entity to represent the west, but AOL and/or the PHX BPR reps can quickly and accurately gauge whether a majority of west would support a new seniority regime. The courts have now sanctioned this. All that is left is the language in the USAPA C&BL's, which I think is intentionally or unintentionally vague enough to move off straight DOH.

The other possibility is that the language simply sunsets if this dispute is still ongoing when we become APA.

We have a legal team in place and there is talk of adding to the team to make sure we have the representation. Judge Silver asked many questions relating to the East/West pilot groups going to the table with their own representation.

This is going to weaken the lame-duck union.

 

[snapthis]

Plan B is she declares ripeness and dismisses on lack of evidence for a DFR. The rest is all smoke. She is doing her level best to solve this, but in the end she will rule on the law.

Greeter

Good luck with that strategy. Actually, I'd call it wishful thinking.

 

[Ames]

On the subject of compromise, I would say ratification of a east/west JCBA with a compromise seniority scheme is unrealistic. There will be no 'LCC only' JCBA because we have moved on to the MOU and MTA.

Compromise means both sides must first acknowledge there will be no DOH and no Nic. Whatever is left, if agreed to by the majority of both east and west pilots, certainly falls within the reasonable definition of a LUP and will most likely prevail against any DFR challenge - or at least any damages will be tolerable.

There is no official entity to represent the west, but AOL and/or the PHX BPR reps can quickly and accurately gauge whether a majority of west would support a new seniority regime. The courts have now sanctioned this. All that is left is the language in the USAPA C&BL's, which I think is intentionally or unintentionally vague enough to move off straight DOH.

The other possibility is that the language simply sunsets if this dispute is still ongoing when we become APA.

I will save you some time. The answer from the west will be a resounding NO! The west will not support any other seniority scheme.

The Nic is the compromise.

We negotiated, we arbitrated. It is done.

The company really needs this done to facilitate the next merger. They will do what they have to do.

Our TA states the result of the alpa merger policy will be implemented upon a single contract. You voted the MOU in. Subsequently a single contract will follow. There will be no other vote. The path of least resistance for the company is to implement the Nic.

Why in the world would anyone expect the west to "compromise" now?

It is done!

 

[Bill Brasky]

We have a legal team in place and there is talk of adding to the team to make sure we have the representation. Judge Silver asked many questions relating to the East/West pilot groups going to the table with their own representation.

This is going to weaken the lame-duck union.

Dude, YOU LOST! It's YOU guys that are refusing to compromise, not the East. You'll get your C&Rs to protect you and your PHX flying. If I were you, I wouldn't be counting on much more than that.

Thump your chest all you want. YOU LOSE! "NIC or nothing" is a dead concept.

You're right, I wasn't in the courtroom yesterday, but I wish I was, just to see you guys leave with your heads hanging.

Better go to the "meet-and-greet". Marty has your bill ready. Lots of billable hours to be paid for. Good thing he can't charge for the embarassment he suffered.

 

[Bill Brasky]

I will save you some time. The answer from the west will be a resounding NO! The west will not support any other seniority scheme.

The Nic is the compromise.

We negotiated, we arbitrated. It is done.

The company really needs this done to facilitate the next merger. They will do what they have to do.

Our TA states the result of the alpa merger policy will be implemented upon a single contract. You voted the MOU in. Subsequently a single contract will follow. There will be no other vote. The path of least resistance for the company is to implement the Nic.

Why in the world would anyone expect the west to "compromise" now?

It is done!

Please, tell Marty to show up with that on the 21st. I want to see that.

 

[Ames]

Please, tell Marty to show up with that on the 21st. I want to see that.

I will. On Friday.

 

[Ames]

Dude, YOU LOST! It's YOU guys that are refusing to compromise, not the East. You'll get your C&Rs to protect you and your PHX flying. If I were you, I wouldn't be counting on much more than that.

Thump your chest all you want. YOU LOSE! "NIC or nothing" is a dead concept.

You're right, I wasn't in the courtroom yesterday, but I wish I was, just to see you guys leave with your heads hanging.

Better go to the "meet-and-greet". Marty has your bill ready. Lots of billable hours to be paid for. Good thing he can't charge for the embarassment he suffered.

We haven't lost anything. Take your C&R's and put them where the sun don't shine. Your bravado is nothing more than entertainment. I am laughing at you.

 

[snapthis]

Dude, YOU LOST! It's YOU guys that are refusing to compromise, not the East. You'll get your C&Rs to protect you and your PHX flying. If I were you, I wouldn't be counting on much more than that.

Thump your chest all you want. YOU LOSE! "NIC or nothing" is a dead concept.

You're right, I wasn't in the courtroom yesterday, but I wish I was, just to see you guys leave with your heads hanging.

Better go to the "meet-and-greet". Marty has your bill ready. Lots of billable hours to be paid for. Good thing he can't charge for the embarassment he suffered.

You are as ignorant as Claxon.

 

[nevergiveup]

I will save you some time. The answer from the west will be a resounding NO! The west will not support any other seniority scheme.

The Nic is the compromise.

We negotiated, we arbitrated. It is done.

The company really needs this done to facilitate the next merger. They will do what they have to do.

Our TA states the result of the alpa merger policy will be implemented upon a single contract. You voted the MOU in. Subsequently a single contract will follow. There will be no other vote. The path of least resistance for the company is to implement the Nic.

Why in the world would anyone expect the west to "compromise" now?

It is done!

I will save you some time. The answer from the west will be a resounding NO! The west will not support any other seniority scheme.

The Nic is the compromise.

We negotiated, we arbitrated. It is done.

The company really needs this done to facilitate the next merger. They will do what they have to do.

Our TA states the result of the alpa merger policy will be implemented upon a single contract. You voted the MOU in. Subsequently a single contract will follow. There will be no other vote. The path of least resistance for the company is to implement the Nic.

Why in the world would anyone expect the west to "compromise" now?

It is done!

Dogs and cats living together...California becomes a republican state...Business select makes its comeback!

 

[Pi brat]

Snapthis,

You were there and even though we disagree on some things I've thought that you take the time to really think about things. What do you say about Ames declaration, that today it is still Nic or nothing?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I will save you some time. The answer from the west will be a resounding NO! The west will not support any other seniority scheme.

The Nic is the compromise.

We negotiated, we arbitrated. It is done.

Thanks Ames, that is exactly the stance we expect you to take, in fact we are counting on it. Perfect.

Greeter