April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[Tim Nelson]

Clinton was a real disappointment as he handicapped negotiations for all unions in this industry when he forced the amr pilots back to work.
In fact, republicans have allowed strikes moreso of late. Politics suck and although republicans generally hate bargaining agents, democrats have also blowed. Also, freedom is right about illegal immigration. Dems wanna also piss money away and tax the hell out of folks and are big into rackets. Sorry fellas but no way in hell would i ever b a republican or democrat. Not much difference.

 

[700UW]

He didnt fire Federal unionized workers.

I witnessed how republirats are when I went to the White House after 9/11 and met with Bush's economic advisor to lobby for the ATSB.

I lived it, you didnt.

 

[roabilly]

Clinton was a real disappointment as he handicapped negotiations for all unions in this industry when he forced the amr pilots back to work.
In fact, republicans have allowed strikes moreso of late. Politics suck and although republicans generally hate bargaining agents, democrats have also blowed. Also, freedom is right about illegal immigration. Dems wanna also piss money away and tax the hell out of folks and are big into rackets. Sorry fellas but no way in hell would i ever b a republican or democrat. Not much difference.

This “The dems do it also” argument has no validity, and is nothing more than your attempt to spin it , and marginalize it! -- It’s not the Democrats that have legislation drawn-up, lobbied, and ready for implementation right now that would effectively end Unionism in the Airlines FOREVER!

What part of that is so difficult to understand? The GOP’s intentions on the NRTA are published all over every Republican website… it’s in the news… it’s in the newspapers! It will only FAIL if there are not enough GOP seats in the Senate and House in 2014 to make it LAW-- It’s that simple!

The 2014 mid-term elections could very well be the tipping point if everyone is apathetic in going to the polls. The mid-terms usually get very little voter participation, and Rand Paul and his Koch Brother Lobbyist know this!

If you ignore this reality, you will no longer need to complain in an Airline Organized Labor Forum, because you will not be a member of a Airline Union in less than 5 years!

 

[Tim Nelson]

This “The dems do it also” argument has no validity, and is nothing more than your attempt to spin it , and marginalize it! -- It’s not the Democrats that have legislation drawn-up, lobbied, and ready for implementation right now that would effectively end Unionism in the Airlines FOREVER!

What part of that is so difficult to understand? The GOP’s intentions on the NRTA are published all over every Republican website… it’s in the news… it’s in the newspapers! It will only FAIL if there are not enough GOP seats in the Senate and House in 2014 to make it LAW-- It’s that simple!

The 2014 mid-term elections could very well be the tipping point if everyone is apathetic in going to the polls. The mid-terms usually get very little voter participation, and Rand Paul and his Koch Brother Lobbyist know this!

If you ignore this reality, you will no longer need to complain in an Airline Organized Labor Forum, because you will not be a member of a Airline Union in less than 5 years!

Does the national right to work legislation apply to the RLA as well? I'm asking cuz I honestly don't know. You have seemed to keep up with this well, any insight? I realize the Republicans are pushing this, and probably supported by 75% of americans as well, but I remain disappointed in the Democrats. Obama campaigned for card check and had a full congress that you would think could have gained something. Instead if blew up, and thankfully so since the Labor unions agreed to force arbitrations as a way to settle contracts. Labor unions have a way of screwing everything up just as well. See the RLA where the labor unions agreed to the voting rules to gain the closed shops. I will give Obama points for perhaps being the first president in such a long time to recognize labor. regards,

 

[freedom]

I'll have to look into this but I highly doubt they are putting a law on the books that would strip us of our current unions ,we are after all a union of a PRIVATE company and not the state or federal government .

 

[roabilly]

Not hard to research Freedom… The National Right to work Act, S. 204 is existing legislation that is ready for implementation as we speak. It would undermine the Railway Labor Act, by essentially superseding it!

Here is an exert from the bill…

SEC. 2. AMENDMENTS TO THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS ACT.

(a) RIGHTS OF EMPLOYEES.-Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act (29 U.S.C. 157) is amended by striking ''except to'' and all that follows through ''authorized in section 8(a)(3)''.​

(UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICES.-Section 8 of the National Labor Relations Act (29 U.S.C. 158) is amended-​

(1) in subsection (a)(3), by striking '': Provided, That'' and all that follows through ''retaining membership'';​

(2) in subsection (-​

(A) in paragraph (2), by striking ''or to discriminate'' and all that follows through ''retaining membership''; and​

( in paragraph (5), by striking ''covered by an agreement authorized under subsection (a)(3) of this section''; and​

(3) in subsection (f), by striking clause (2) and redesignating clauses (3) and (4) as clauses (2) and (3), respectively.​

SEC. 3. AMENDMENT TO THE RAILWAY LABOR ACT.
Section 2 of the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 152) is amended by striking paragraph Eleven.

Here is Rand Paul's official link!

 

[roabilly]

Freedom, here is the link to the RLA -- scroll down to 152 chapter eleven (11) and tell me what it enforces, then report back to this forum with your findings and opinion!

I encourage everyone here in this forum to do this reading on their own… form your own opinion… and tell us what you think it all means!

 

[freedom]

Well if its the section 11 that i read it appears to enforce union membership and require dues to come out of said members ....

If section 11 was stricken from the RLA I honestly don't see that as being a big deal ... I've worked in unions that are not covered by the RLA and its much the same ...while they can't FORCE everyone to join up ,people still do ...

Things like the IAM pension would have to go or become optional, and union reps pay scales would have to shrink , national union activties would most likely cease and poltical contributions would go away, things would become much more local .

Is that what this NRTA does ? Give people the choice to be in a union or not ?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well if its the section 11 that i read it appears to enforce union membership and require dues to come out of said members ....

If section 11 was stricken from the RLA I honestly don't see that as being a big deal ... I've worked in unions that are not covered by the RLA and its much the same ...while they can't FORCE everyone to join up ,people still do ...

Things like the IAM pension would have to go or become optional, and union reps pay scales would have to shrink , national union activties would most likely cease and poltical contributions would go away, things would become much more local .

Is that what this NRTA does ? Give people the choice to be in a union or not ?

One thing is for sure, the vast majority, imo, would not pay one red cent to the IAM unless it delivered. Not sure what that means for AGC pay but something will give. At any rate, I seriously doubt that this legislation has a snowball's chance of securing enough steam to pass. And then Obama will veto it if it makes it that far. regards,

 

[Jester]

Well if its the section 11 that i read it appears to enforce union membership and require dues to come out of said members ....

If section 11 was stricken from the RLA I honestly don't see that as being a big deal ... I've worked in unions that are not covered by the RLA and its much the same ...while they can't FORCE everyone to join up ,people still do ...

Things like the IAM pension would have to go or become optional, and union reps pay scales would have to shrink , national union activties would most likely cease and poltical contributions would go away, things would become much more local .

Is that what this NRTA does ? Give people the choice to be in a union or not ?

I am really mixed about this whole deal myself... like you, I have worked in organizations where being a dues paying member of the union was optional, and frankly, there was little to see how that union deserved to be paid anything! Anyone thinks the old AWA pay scale had a lousy top-out rate, should have worked beside me. I wasn't even sure who was even my shop steward, and I never had a discussion with anyone from the union regarding any matter! Did they deserve any dues I would have been forced to pay otherwise? Not for a second!

On the other hand, one runs into the problem of what economists call the "free rider"... in essence, people benefit from something without the burden of having to pay for it. I think we all can agree that we, as the Membership, benefit from a higher pay scale with our CBA vs. being with a contracted fleet service operation, and while far from perfect, we do receive representative services from within our organization.

I think due objectors became the compromise solution for those who disagreed with the political lobbying, while still rightfully paying the benefits in having a union and the costs associated with normal operations. However, I do question the "discount" from being a dues objector appears to be very modest, especially when the ability to vote in union elections becomes lost.

Either way, I think every union needs to earn their dues and avoid the temptation any of the leadership forgetting they work for the Membership, and they are closer to the rank-and-file than the Corporation Executive Board in pay and work.

 

[700UW]

700... why does Josh (737832), a banker in BOS care about what kind of agreement anyone gets? Is he invested in US stock? AA stock? UA stock?

What is his deal? What is he dong in an Airline Forum to begin with?

I told you he wont answer you

 

[P. REZ]

Here is how I look at the National Right to work law and state right to work laws.

1. If my state votes in a 1 cent tax for education..........100% of the people pay.
2. In AZ., McCain was voted in as Senator...................he is our Senator, not the other guy.

I could go on and on and on. That is how voting works, the majority speaks for everyone. If a work group at any job anywhere in America votes 50% +1 then they have a Union. These right to work laws are Union busting pure and simple. Now, if these laws were passed and to get the benefits of the negotiated contract you had to be a member, then IMO, it would be alright. If a person chose to accept what the Company gave them in pay and benefits or negotiated their pay and benefits on their own then it would be acceptable.

P. Rez

 

[Harry Callahan]

I told you he wont answer you

Guys I have the idiot on ignore, but who knows who he really is.

 

[700UW]

 

[Tim Nelson]

the watchdog groups assessed the current legislation and only gave a prognosis of 2% passage. Only put it at 10% of leaving the committee. Let's focus more on our current problems 'close to home' and stop fussing so much about something that is not front and center and a long way from home. Read Here regards,