April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[Tim Nelson]

If there is an arrangement then I hope the IAM allows the membership to vote on any such new entity like the CWA did. This can't be a situation where Delaney decides our members get a whole new 'union entity'. He isn't our father or daddy and we don't need him making decisions without our consent. regards,

 

[ograc]

I'm pleased the postings the last few days, since the announcement of the two LOAs, have focused more on pertinent issues pertaining to our future. For the most part... much better dialogue and debate as we move forward... imo.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'm pleased the postings the last few days, since the announcement of the two LOAs, have focused more on pertinent issues pertaining to our future. For the most part... much better dialogue and debate as we move forward... imo.

viewing the LOA's is much better than the announcement. CB said he would get them posted so I trust the LOA's will be viewable. At any rate, the membership NEEDS to vote on any concoction between the TWU/IAM. regards,

 

[ograc]

In regards to future outsourcing... IMO the vendor of choice will be American Eagle when applicable. Above and below wing. The "synergies" realized with merging. Be aware.

 

[737823]

The difference is that people work *for* a corporation. A union works *for* it's people.

That is what unions should do, but in practice that doesn't always happen. Bob always posts about how Gless, Videtich, etc advocate what is best for AA and TWU rationalizing highly concessionary agreements while rewarding themselves with exorbitant salaries in the process. At what point do people realize if that is the mindset of union leaders they are better served without representation?

Separate from that-and I know I've said it before- IMO Andy Stern was as detrimental to labor as any boss could've ever been.

Stern organizing workers into weak CBAs with the support of management isn't any different than mainline UAL stations being transitioned to ZW while the IAM still collects dues is it? Same concept, the union is made whole while the workers they aspire to serve get the shaft.

Josh

 

[737823]

In regards to future outsourcing... IMO the vendor of choice will be American Eagle when applicable. Above and below wing. The "synergies" realized with merging. Be aware.

If TWU prevails=> American Eagle
If IAM prevails=> Air Wisconsin
If CWA prevails (above wing) => Piedmont

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

In regards to future outsourcing... IMO the vendor of choice will be American Eagle when applicable. Above and below wing. The "synergies" realized with merging. Be aware.

what about piedmont? Hopefully our nc can enhance our scope before joint talks and not fold with a tiny wage increase that is suppose to make us happy. Scope is the most important thing but the damn iam has pimped us and sold scope short. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

That is what unions should do, but in practice that doesn't always happen. Bob always posts about how Gless, Videtich, etc advocate what is best for AA and TWU rationalizing highly concessionary agreements while rewarding themselves with exorbitant salaries in the process. At what point do people realize if that is the mindset of union leaders they are better served without representation?



Stern organizing workers into weak CBAs with the support of management isn't any different than mainline UAL stations being transitioned to ZW while the IAM still collects dues is it? Same concept, the union is made whole while the workers they aspire to serve get the shaft.

Josh

stern never participated in the union busting actions of the iam which "exclusively" cleansed seniority and set up the station wage class system. And now the 141 eboard spent one million to only protect 7 stations at united, triple health care cost, 1% pay raises for 7 years but got the unlimited part time to double iam revenues. These guys are bastards and wont admit wrong at the feet of their god called the iam. regards

 

[Tim Nelson]

If TWU prevails=> American Eagle
If IAM prevails=> Air Wisconsin
If CWA prevails (above wing) => Piedmont

Josh

or some sorta deal between the 3 that whacks more good jobs although no dues loss. regards

 

[Kev3188]

When you enter Government oversight, business ruthlessness, American politics, GOPAC legislation, and finally, unadulterated GREED into the equation-- You come up with exactly where we are now… give or take release or cool down period!

...And none-and I mean NONE- of that changes as long as people simply shrug their shoulders and accept the status quo. People have simply been conditioned to think that this is okay, and the current structure(s) of most unions only serve to foster that. Be honest; of all the union members you know, how many are truly engaged? How many's involvement begins and ends with the dues taken out of their check? How many share your "you-can't-change-the-system-so-why-try?" mindset?

Further, you may, or may not have noticed that the Airline Industry has more clout with American Government than you may think. Case in point, the Airlines just got a resolution to a sequestered budget that was adversely influencing on time performance and profits! Think about this… a divided Congress made an exception to a bitter partisan grid locked political battle to just to appease the Airlines!

I would sincerely appreciate you not talking to me like I'm some 13 yr. old kid. We're not on A.Net...

While I'm not running out the clock like you are, I have been around long enough to know what's going on, and who all the players are. Thanks in advance.

Now… what would YOU do if you were a Union Leader/ Negotiator? Would you simply propose a strike on the first day? Guess what… you CAN’T! You would be in violation of the RLA! The facts are you would have to play by the exact same rules as every committee has for decades! You would not be able to do one single thing better, or faster-- that’s reality!

Remind me; what "rules" say it's okay to foster apathy amongst the membership? Which "rules" preclude bottom up organizing/engagement? Which "rules" put empire building ahead of the needs of the membership?

Specifically w/r/t the IAM, what "rules" make it okay for 141 to *completely* ignore what it's members were asking for in Section 6? Which "rules" made it okay for 143 to completely dismiss it's own activists with a "we got this" mindset, only to absolutely f**k up a representation election?

 

[700UW]

If there is an arrangement then I hope the IAM allows the membership to vote on any such new entity like the CWA did. This can't be a situation where Delaney decides our members get a whole new 'union entity'. He isn't our father or daddy and we don't need him making decisions without our consent. regards,

Even you should know Delaney doesnt have the power to do that, that is way above his head.

 

[700UW]

or some sorta deal between the 3 that whacks more good jobs although no dues loss. regards

It does whack dues, why do you lie?

Lower paid wages means lower dues.

 

[roabilly]

...And none-and I mean NONE- of that changes as long as people simply shrug their shoulders and accept the status quo. People have simply been conditioned to think that this is okay, and the current structure(s) of most unions only serve to foster that. Be honest; of all the union members you know, how many are truly engaged? How many's involvement begins and ends with the dues taken out of their check? How many share your "you-can't-change-the-system-so-why-try?" mindset?



I would sincerely appreciate you not talking to me like I'm some 13 yr. old kid. We're not on A.Net...

While I'm not running out the clock like you are, I have been around long enough to know what's going on, and who all the players are. Thanks in advance.



Remind me; what "rules" say it's okay to foster apathy amongst the membership? Which "rules" preclude bottom up organizing/engagement? Which "rules" put empire building ahead of the needs of the membership?

Specifically w/r/t the IAM, what "rules" make it okay for 141 to *completely* ignore what it's members were asking for in Section 6? Which "rules" made it okay for 143 to completely dismiss it's own activists with a "we got this" mindset, only to absolutely f**k up a representation election?

So-- Layout “your” plan for correcting this apathy, lack of interest, and Leadership arrogance. We had a plan in 08, and we were successful in ousting a whole lot of Union Leaders. The N/D folks lived it, and I lived it with them! It wasn’t that long ago, and I’ll assure you they are still carrying the same determination now… that they had then!

Now... what specifically would YOU do different?

 

[roabilly]

Congress appeased the people not the airlines ,not to mention polticians fly too.

You are wrong! No pasenger group partcipated in this! It was ALL Airline (Corporate) Lobbyist!

Read THIS!

 

[Kev3188]

So-- Layout “your” plan for correcting this apathy, lack of interest, and Leadership arrogance. We had a plan in 08, and we were successful in ousting a whole lot of Union Leaders. The N/D folks lived it, and I lived it with them! It wasn’t that long ago, and I’ll assure you they are still carrying the same determination now… that they had then!

Now... what specifically would YOU do different?

That's right; you had a plan, and it was a good one (at least it seemed to be from here). Then that team ran right into the same stultifying wall as those that came before them.

One more time: It's far above the N/D level, and it's not just the IAM, but the leadership of most of organized labor.

What would I do? I'm working towards the exact opposite of what I've noted earlier. You've been quoting my posts; haven't you been reading them?