April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[ograc]

Tim,

I saw that article and the one where Doug is getting a 44% raise because of last years results and the fact that he is CEO of the largest airline now. If you read the whole article you also noticed that the profit projections were based on the cuts at AA which for fleet puts their contract under ours overall in cost per employee. I wish it was that simple Tim, that is why I wish everyone at some point in time could be a part of the negotiation process so they could fully understand what a committee goes through. Until someone has been through this process, it is hard to understand how and why contracts come out the way they do. To learn more Tim, maybe you should reach out to 700 since he is not politically active at US anymore and see if he will explain the process to you. He seems to be knowlegable on the subject. There is more to it then it seems.

Here's to knowledge.

P. Rez

P. Rez,
I agree until a member has been through the contract negotiations process first hand they cannot appreciate the challenges. Many members don't realize the calious posture and approach by the company, regarding the livelihoods of their employees, in contract negotiations. Members talk about what is "fair" or "appreciation" and "recognition" for "past sacrifices". I don't need to tell you, for I know you have seen it first hand now, the words "fair", "appreciation" and "recognition" are not in the company's dictionary. You and the rest of the NC have the luxury of negotiating in Section 6. In defense of past leadership... can you imagine or appreciate the challenges of negotiating a contract with this company under the protection of bankruptcy? The membership better soon realize and understand what any negotiating committee is up against in contract negotiations and who their true adversaries are. The best to the NC next week in DC Brother.

 

[ograc]

Al Hemenway doesnt know how to negotiate, he only wants concessions and whats good for the company and screw the employees, trust me I have first hand experience dealing with him in negotiations.

If only all of the members could witness Al Hemenway in contract negotiations. Their belief of the company doing the right thing... recognizing past sacrifices and making things right would be quickly diminished. Their judgements of current and past NCs would be different also. He is the lead negotiator for the company in contract negotiations. He is the one who brings forth the company's agenda in negotiations. A ruthless negotiator, if you could call it that, who has little regard for fairness, employees' livelihoods or recognition of past sacrifices by the employees through bankcruptcy.This is what past and current NCs have been up against. Until any member has sat across the table from such arrogance they should not be so quick to judge their NC's efforts.

 

[robbedagain]

to cb and all of the iam negogiators i wish you and the team all the best of luck in the world and good luck too you all need it.

itd sure be nice to get better pay better sick policies enhanced scope language protections limited or no outsourcing ( i know thats over the edge but itd be nice ) a 401k match etc etc

 

[Tim Nelson]

Those numbers are projections, a crash, or a war, or some other world crisis could turn that into a loss.

Help! olice Murder!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Al Hemenway doesnt know how to negotiate, he only wants concessions and whats good for the company and screw the employees, trust me I have first hand experience dealing with him in negotiations.

thats the problem, he is a great negotiator and picked up where jerry glass left. He kicks the asses of iam negotiators. Regards

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

I don't have your number and don't take offense but I would not be interested in talking to you because everything is about politics with you. I asked if you could leave the politics alone and do your part in helping the membership but you can't. Your political future would be better served if you would do the right thing and not make promises you can't keep. I don't trust you Tim because you are a win at all costs kind of guy and you will make deals with the devil to get what you want. What happened to the fishing you were going to catch up on? I really hope that you sit back and evaluate how to help as opposed to what you are doing now. You are not happy unless you are stirring the pot, are you?

P. Rez

lmao. Ill admit that was a good one! Regards

 

[freedom]

If only all of the members could witness Al Hemenway in contract negotiations. Their belief of the company doing the right thing... recognizing past sacrifices and making things right would be quickly diminished. Their judgements of current and past NCs would be different also. He is the lead negotiator for the company in contract negotiations. He is the one who brings forth the company's agenda in negotiations. A ruthless negotiator, if you could call it that, who has little regard for fairness, employees' livelihoods or recognition of past sacrifices by the employees through bankcruptcy.This is what past and current NCs have been up against. Until any member has sat across the table from such arrogance they should not be so quick to judge their NC's efforts.

Everyone has a weakness , usually ideological , I'm betting that most of you on the committee are hardcore union guys , democratic voters ... makes it harder to understand the person sitting across from you if their hardcore company/republican ... but I assure you , no matter how opposite the position it IS possible to reach out and turn a potential enemy into a friend , it can be as simple or as complex as trying to put yourself in their shoes mentally ... It's not easy , but it can be done .

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

I saw that article and the one where Doug is getting a 44% raise because of last years results and the fact that he is CEO of the largest airline now. If you read the whole article you also noticed that the profit projections were based on the cuts at AA which for fleet puts their contract under ours overall in cost per employee. I wish it was that simple Tim, that is why I wish everyone at some point in time could be a part of the negotiation process so they could fully understand what a committee goes through. Until someone has been through this process, it is hard to understand how and why contracts come out the way they do. To learn more Tim, maybe you should reach out to 700 since he is not politically active at US anymore and see if he will explain the process to you. He seems to be knowlegable on the subject. There is more to it then it seems.

Here's to knowledge.

P. Rez

Lol. regards,

 

[ograc]

Everyone has a weakness , usually ideological , I'm betting that most of you on the committee are hardcore union guys , democratic voters ... makes it harder to understand the person sitting across from you if their hardcore company/republican ... but I assure you , no matter how opposite the position it IS possible to reach out and turn a potential enemy into a friend , it can be as simple or as complex as trying to put yourself in their shoes mentally ... It's not easy , but it can be done .

An enemy into a friend. Are you serious? Are you suggesting the union kisses arse, asks nicely and the company will grant whatever we seek? Freedom; you obviously are one who holds out hope the company truly cares about you, your livelihood, your interests, your previous sacrifices, your job and your years of service. You continue to believe the company will do what is right by you and us as a collective group. Yet, you have never experienced, first hand, the true intentions of the company at the negotiating table. The company is calious, calculating and intends to take whatever they can get from this group. The truth is they view you and the entire group as a liability. Sorry to break your bubble... but after 30 + years experiencing efforts by the company to decertify the union, fighting tooth and nail through contract negotiations, bankruptcy concessions and a generic Transition Agreement, your insinuation of singing Kumbiha with the company for future improvements is ridiculous and somewhat insulting. I would like to ask the NC if they could appoint Freedom as an observer to future negotiations. With the caveat... he will not utter a word. Freedom; you and many others need to open their eyes and quit dreaming.

 

[charlie Brown]

An enemy into a friend. Are you serious? Are you suggesting the union kisses arse, asks nicely and the company will grant whatever we seek? Freedom; you obviously are one who holds out hope the company truly cares about you, your livelihood, your interests, your previous sacrifices, your job and your years of service. You continue to believe the company will do what is right by you and us as a collective group. Yet, you have never experienced, first hand, the true intentions of the company at the negotiating table. The company is calious, calculating and intends to take whatever they can get from this group. The truth is they view you and the entire group as a liability. Sorry to break your bubble... but after 30 + years experiencing efforts by the company to decertify the union, fighting tooth and nail through contract negotiations, bankruptcy concessions and a generic Transition Agreement, your insinuation of singing Kumbiha with the company for future improvements is ridiculous and somewhat insulting. I would like to ask the NC if they could appoint Freedom as an observer to future negotiations. With the caveat... he will not utter a word. Freedom; you and many others need to open their eyes and quit dreaming.

Good post Ograc! I agree with you. I wish everyone could experience a session in negotiations. Just to remind everyone, our next session is next week. We travel to Dca on Monday, and we are scheduled to meet with the company tues, wed, & thur, and travel back on Friday.

 

[robbedagain]

excellent post orgac... sadly folks like freedom really have no brains to comprehend what has happened nor they probably will never experience something on the scale of what we went thru esp back in those days.... cb i want to personelly reiterate my best wishes and the best of luck to you the other iam officials this upcoming week i know it wont be easy but i thought id say good luck and give them hell for all we have been thru

 

[psa8979]

Second that ograc. AH cares about making MONEY for AMR Group and AH. He will do what ever it takes to WIN and CRUSH US F/S. He crossed over to the Company side 30 yrs, ago at PSA. AH is a Card Player and doesn't easily fold. WE have some ACES in our hand with this Final Big Merger. WE can WIN if WE play our cards WISELY . Those who look at this MERGER through ROSE COLORED GLASSES are FOOLS. GOOD LUCK ! NC in DCA.

 

[700UW]

thats the problem, he is a great negotiator and picked up where jerry glass left. He kicks the asses of iam negotiators. Regards

He isnt a great negotiator he actually doesnt negotiate.

During chapter 11 negotiations, Doug McKeen was brought back in to be the lead negotiator.

We would make a proposal and Al would say "no value", so we started calling him NVA, No Value Al.

And Glass is back at US as a consultant.

And Al is the VP of Labor relations, Elise is the Senior VP, she is in charge.

And Al got his start at PSA and was a ramp manager.

You should have seen him when we got the win in the airbus arbitration, he was pissed.

Beth Holdren, the US Corporate Attorney even told him, dont take on the IAM with the airbus, you will lose, he is arrogant and violated the CBA and lost in court and lost in arbitration.

 

[700UW]

Everyone has a weakness , usually ideological , I'm betting that most of you on the committee are hardcore union guys , democratic voters ... makes it harder to understand the person sitting across from you if their hardcore company/republican ... but I assure you , no matter how opposite the position it IS possible to reach out and turn a potential enemy into a friend , it can be as simple or as complex as trying to put yourself in their shoes mentally ... It's not easy , but it can be done .

You are truly clueless.

 

[freedom]

In times like these where there is great difficulty at the table , there is in my opinion only one man to handle this job , and that is Ron Roth ...

Yet I'm not aware of the NC asking him for help or to join them at the table , I would hope I'm misinformed and that he's sitting in right now ...

I mean he DID sit on the last contract , its not like he dorsnt know the game .