April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[ograc]

At the very least… this would be negotiating in “bad faith” which is actually NOT negotiating at all! I would guess as Charlie has previously stated… they would ask to be released, and with good reason! I can't really see NMB disagreeing.

roabilly,
I agree such a stance by the company in negotiations in DC would constitute negotiating in "bad faith". Not sure how the NMB would view it if the NC asked to be released. Let's keep in mind; this is a government agency that has not released a labor organization for countless years. Not to mention our brothers at US DL 142 MTC.& Related have already asked for release. Two bargaining units being released on the same property at the same time doubtful... two bargaining units asking to be released on the same property at the same time... priceless. IMO... if the NC gets jerked around again they should request to be released. I know Charlie feels the NC has made good progress to this point... but as the merger unfolds I believe the company is now showing their true colors regarding reaching any agreements with the IAM.

 

[ograc]

Mark my words....Mgmnt will hire people so there will be no positions to come back too........that is kind of what happened with the last merger.

When stations are allowed to be outsourced affected employees are subject to this same practice. If there are no openings the station is not listed in the displacement package to the affected employee in the outsourced station. End result is limited options to the displaced employee that results in the employee "voluntarily" accepting furlough. By electing to "voluntarily" furlough the employee has waived the "job protection" language negotiated in the contract. As stated before... there seems to be a big difference in the definition of "job protection" between the membership, the District leadership (both past & present) and the NCs. Going forward... I hope we can bridge this disconnect and achieve TRUE "job protection" in future contracts. NO MORE OUTSOURCING! IMO... It will bring about a slow demise of labor represented jobs within our bargaining unit and the entire industry. A cancer that needs to be eradicated if labor is going to survive in this industry.

 

[robbedagain]

unless of course the company as they did back in 05 kept changing the cities list repeatedly several times a week or so just to keep folks from transferring

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nelson,

This statement is ridiculous-- You have just admitted that you only view the Organized Labor Environment in the micro-dimension! Don’t you think that is ironic for the author of "The Big Picture”? Everything has a reason and/or effect… and that’s what I spend time attempting to understand, and ultimately clarify.

Perhaps, you should attempt to view, and express your passion in the macro-dimension… as I said, everything has a cause. The question is… are you attempting to be the cause, or the effect?

Holy Gripes! You just did a monster 'quote mine' on me. My views recognized the Big Picture of labor even though I'm only in the left hand corner. I can't be engaged in all aspects of everything and can't be in two places at one time. But I thought I made it explicitly clear that I appreciated the INTL's agenda against some of the anti labor laws by participating in a rally in Ohio in support of the public employees there. Sheesh! I'm not superman! regards,

 

[ograc]

unless of course the company as they did back in 05 kept changing the cities list repeatedly several times a week or so just to keep folks from transferring

Again... this is why the IAM needs to say no to any form of outsourcing language in future contracts.

 

[robbedagain]

i fully agree with you orgac absolutely need to put an end to outsourcing... must get better scope language better pay better sick the whole nine yards.. of course some how some way i dont foresee that happening with this mgmt circus folks while they negogiate with the iam... we shall see

 

[ograc]

I also want to remind everyone that everyone of us around that table gets to have our say so and equal vote. No ones vote is any bigger than the other. Small stations vote, is the same as say the hub station vote, which is the same as a AGC vote. We all are equal votes. Everything is discussed and debated, then discussed and debated again. At US there is no one person making the decisions for us all. All of us, do very well in bringing our points out for discussion. This is how we will continue until we get an agreement

Charlie,
Thank you for the clarification. I take great comfort in knowing a democratic process is indeed in place regarding the NC. I believe the NC, up to this point, has the best intentions of keeping the memberships' interests in mind regarding our future contract. I do have two questions. 1.) Does the President of the District, or any other International Representative, have the authority to superceed the the intent and desire of the NC in contract negotiations? 2.) You have stated in past negotiations there was significant progress made. I know you cannot be too detail oriented but can you shed some light on the progress made concerning scope and the elimination of outsourcing language in the future contract to this point? I would hope our NC does not define "job protection" the way the UA NC and the District defined it with the UA TA.

 

[Tim Nelson]

LOL. There isn't, nor was there at any time 'significant progress'. Delaney gives permission for NC team members to come to forums and to give updates on the official website with terms like 'progress", 'great progress', and 'rapid progress'. At least two dozen updates from the United negotiation team described negotiations as such positivist bull S'ers. Now we see "Good update/Bad update" from our negotiation team on the website. Seems like the 'good updates' are signed by the negotiations team on the website but the bad updates are grumpy ones by Delaney. At this time, all we know is the latest update where Delaney put up a 'kool aid' emblem in derogatory fashion against management. lol regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Catering? I don't believe any pre transition contract will affect it but any post merger and post representation question 'TA' will probably cough up these jobs if we take the record of the TWU or IAM. Time will tell. regards,

 

[737823]

Is MIA a mainline or express station for US? AA is mainline ramp, mainline passenger service, although Eulen America provides cabin service, baggage service staff and wheelchair chair/duty free attendants. MIA is AA's second largest hub based on traffic hopefully with the merger everything will remain mainline.

Josh

 

[P. REZ]

LOL. There isn't, nor was there at any time 'significant progress'. Delaney gives permission for NC team members to come to forums and to give updates on the official website with terms like 'progress", 'great progress', and 'rapid progress'. At least two dozen updates from the United negotiation team described negotiations as such positivist bull S'ers. Now we see "Good update/Bad update" from our negotiation team on the website. Seems like the 'good updates' are signed by the negotiations team on the website but the bad updates are grumpy ones by Delaney. At this time, all we know is the latest update where Delaney put up a 'kool aid' emblem in derogatory fashion against management. lol regards,

Tim,

I personally want you to be a part of the transition agreement that we enter at some point to integrate AA and US employees into a single agreement. Why? Because then you will realize that talk is cheap and you will see first hand what the process entails. It is so easy to sit on the outside and say I would have done this or I would have done that. I challenge you to bring your knowledge to all in a non-political way as to bring the membership together. Do you really think for one minute that anybody that has ever been in negotiations likes the negative things that come out? Outsourcing, sick policies, insurance, pensions, split shifts, ready reserve etc. are all things everyone would like to make better. The NC we have at US is a great group of individuals who only want to make things better for everyone. I don't doubt that for one second. I know that once a ta is reached that some things will be good and other things not so much. If you think that any group who steps into negotiations will come back with a ta that is loved by all then you need a reality check. What do you say Tim, can you get off the political rhetoric and help this membership or are you going to continue to bash us all? I think you have the knowledge to help if you want but I think your political aspirations are getting in the way.

Sincerely,

P. Rez

 

[robbedagain]

Is MIA a mainline or express station for US? AA is mainline ramp, mainline passenger service, although Eulen America provides cabin service, baggage service staff and wheelchair chair/duty free attendants. MIA is AA's second largest hub based on traffic hopefully with the merger everything will remain mainline.

Josh

mia is mainline for both. i dont think too much will change following the merger... fyi fll mco tpa and i think jax are also mainline ramp there too hope that helps josh...

p rez.. thats a terriffic post

 

[necigrad]

Mark my words....Mgmnt will hire people so there will be no positions to come back too........that is kind of what happened with the last merger.

If the merger happens, once positions do open up they will be filled in accordance with the relevant CBA. I would expect that it will be largely be senority, with any displaced AA PHX employees getting the dfirst shot. If there are AA PHX employees that have been displaced I don't see any hiring in PHX for a LONG time, both because of my (any many others) predicted downsizing and AAs 10 year (if I'm reading it right) recall rights.

In hindsight to an earlier question, I'd say if this merger happened there will be VERY few HP employees in PHX within 5 years. No facts, just a prediction.

 

[ChockJockey]

If the merger happens, once positions do open up they will be filled in accordance with the relevant CBA. I would expect that it will be largely be senority, with any displaced AA PHX employees getting the dfirst shot. If there are AA PHX employees that have been displaced I don't see any hiring in PHX for a LONG time, both because of my (any many others) predicted downsizing and AAs 10 year (if I'm reading it right) recall rights.

In hindsight to an earlier question, I'd say if this merger happened there will be VERY few HP employees in PHX within 5 years. No facts, just a prediction.

PHX has about 40 new hires hitting the ramp within the next couple of weeks.

 

[charlie Brown]

Charlie,
Thank you for the clarification. I take great comfort in knowing a democratic process is indeed in place regarding the NC. I believe the NC, up to this point, has the best intentions of keeping the memberships' interests in mind regarding our future contract. I do have two questions. 1.) Does the President of the District, or any other International Representative, have the authority to superceed the the intent and desire of the NC in contract negotiations? 2.) You have stated in past negotiations there was significant progress made. I know you cannot be too detail oriented but can you shed some light on the progress made concerning scope and the elimination of outsourcing language in the future contract to this point? I would hope our NC does not define "job protection" the way the UA NC and the District defined it with the UA TA.

Ograc
In the beginning of negotiations the committee set ground rules that have to be followed by EVERYONE on the committee. I can't really go into them except to say like I said before, that all of us have equal say so. We do have leaders on the team, but again everyone's voice is heard and is equal. As for scope? We submitted a scope proposal to the company that had much improvement from our current scope article. At this time we do not have an agreement on our scope article. Like I have said before, once the merger was announced, our focus shift from working on a complete contract, to deciding on the things we have to have now vs the things we can get later in integration. Some things we must get now. Some things we can wait on. I am in no way stating that scope is one of the things that can be waited on. Just saying, our focus has changed to the must have now things.