April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[700UW]

The last report on the pension by an independent agency said the pension is funded to 105%, how is that not sound?

Freedom, you really need to educate yourself, with each post you sound more foolish.

 

[freedom]

That's my point exactly. How can you call for solidarity when you're indifferent to job losses and obsessive over your take-home? Do you value solidarity because of how it benefits the membership or do you value solidarity because of how it benefits Freedom?

His screen name and quasi-libertarian opinions on economics and politics strongly suggest a taste for a kind of hands-off individualism that puts the needs and rights of the individual over all others. This is well and good, since we live in a country where people are allowed to think and believe as they wish. The problem is that is that the ethos of individualism (not to be confused with individuality) and that of unionism are wholly incompatible. The former insists that by seeking one's own self-interest above all others everyone (somehow) benefits while the latter insists that the individual subsume and sacrifice the prominence of his/her wants to the good of the whole. I think this is the crux of his irritating double-speak, that he wants the best of both worlds even though they can't be reconciled. The committed individualist has no need for unionism unless unionism can be used to further his own individual interests.

No, Freedom doesn't 'speak' for PHX in that anybody who shouts the most nonsense most loudly from any place speaks for it. I doubt PHX will see reductions to the degree that his position will be threatened (by virtue of his seniority). If buy-outs are offered and the geriatric crowd in PHX takes them then he probably has nothing to worry about. If buy-outs are not offered and they furlough from the bottom the worst he might have to face - if you can imagine it - is having to actually get in the bin.

wow that was really deep .. bravo ..but the world my friend is not black and white ...remember , only a sith lord deals in absolutes ... (star wars ; )

I do believe that the greatest driver of human advancement has been self interest , and societies ability to harness that self interest ..However, I am of course of the mind that when it's necessary , group concerns take precedence over individual ones ..

The world we live in today is fluid and full of different points of view ... While the laws in our country say things are suppose to be one way , often times they are not ...We must be pragmatic people who adapt constantly to an ever changing situation ...

If I was COMPLETELY self interested then I would demand that we cease funding altogether of the IAM pension rather than maintain it at our current levels ...

 

[freedom]

The last report on the pension by an independent agency said the pension is funded to 105%, how is that not sound?

Freedom, you really need to educate yourself, with each post you sound more foolish.

I'm sorry , but I don't believe bankers or their accountants ..

I'm convinced that we are in what's known as an asset bubble in this country ..The Federal Reserve has been buying up MBS (mortgage backed securities ) to the tune of 40 Billion dollars a month , in addition to their other operations which inject 45 Billion dollars into the American economy for a grand total of 85 Billion dollars a month of QE ( quantitve easing )

The stock market seemingly has "Recovered" , yet all of us regular folk know that our economy is not booming and that tough times abound for many people .. Did you know that almost 1 in 7 Americans are now on the Food Stamp Program (SNAP) ?

Anyways , my point is that the asset valuations that underlie the pension , CANNOT be correct when property, stocks and bonds are not being valued honestly ( due to the inflating actions of the FED) ... Today everything seems fine , but pensions are long term operations , and sooner or later something will have to give in the American economy , when it does , the pension WILL be affected by it .

 

[ChockJockey]

wow that was really deep .. bravo ..but the world my friend is not black and white

Indeed it isn't, I was just illustrating how maintaining contradictory value sets can make it look like someone's speaking out of both sides of his mouth and his ass simultaneously.

 

[Tim Nelson]

maybe since DL has been promoted, he can change NH assignment and finally take "BUF" off his list of 4 stations he is responsible for. MM is busting his ass for sure with like 15 stations. Meanwhile, Prez has only one station showing. regards,

 

[freedom]

Indeed it isn't, I was just illustrating how maintaining contradictory value sets can make it look like someone's speaking out of both sides of his mouth and his ass simultaneously.

well thank you for helping to clear all of this up so that people understand me better when I speak ...i'm sure there may have been some confusion in the past ...

 

[ChockJockey]

I'm sorry , but I don't believe bankers or their accountants ..

I'm convinced that we are in what's known as an asset bubble in this country ..The Federal Reserve has been buying up MBS (mortgage backed securities ) to the tune of 40 Billion dollars a month , in addition to their other operations which inject 45 Billion dollars into the American economy for a grand total of 85 Billion dollars a month of QE ( quantitve easing )

The stock market seemingly has "Recovered" , yet all of us regular folk know that our economy is not booming and that tough times abound for many people .. Did you know that almost 1 in 7 Americans are now on the Food Stamp Program (SNAP) ?

Anyways , my point is that the asset valuations that underlie the pension , CANNOT be correct when property, stocks and bonds are not being valued honestly ( due to the inflating actions of the FED) ... Today everything seems fine , but pensions are long term operations , and sooner or later something will have to give in the American economy , when it does , the pension WILL be affected by it .

This coming from "one of the foremost economic minds" on these forums, the same that prophecized this airline and the economy it operates in would be in ruins by now...

 

[ChockJockey]

well thank you for helping to clear all of this up so that people understand me better when I speak ...i'm sure there may have been some confusion in the past ...

Any time bud.

 

[Tim Nelson]

well thank you for helping to clear all of this up so that people understand me better when I speak ...i'm sure there may have been some confusion in the past ...

Freedom, I just realized that you are going to pass me on the amount of post that I have posted. By my calculations, you should pass me by next week but I've been on here since 2003 I believe. Of course, the Mt Everest of posters is 700uw with a whopping 19,850 post! And he doesn't even work in this industry. regards,

 

[freedom]

This coming from "one of the foremost economic minds" on these forums, the same that prophecized this airline and the economy it operates in would be in ruins by now...

700 wanted an answer to why I don't believe in the fairy tale pension ... I gave him my answer , let's not divulge into a debate about economics .

 

[freedom]

Freedom, I just realized that you are going to pass me on the amount of post that I have posted. By my calculations, you should pass me by next week but I've been on here since 2003 I believe. Of course, the Mt Everest of posters is 700uw with a whopping 19,850 post! And he doesn't even work in this industry. regards,

Horray ! chock is catching up fast , as our the others ... I'm confident in their ability to overtake my score in no time .

 

[ChockJockey]

Omg guys don't you know that professional schmucks from the company read these boards and that it matters somehow?

h34r: :wacko:

Be afraid!

 

[ChockJockey]

700 wanted an answer to why I don't believe in the fairy tale pension ... I gave him my answer , let's not divulge into a debate about economics .

Yes, your answer was to dodge the question. So when other people talk about economic issues it's fiction, but when Freedom talks about economic issues it's solid and well reasoned. Gonna write that down. 'kay, got it.

 

[700UW]

Guess freedum needs to learn about ERISA laws.

http://www.dol.gov/c.../comp-erisa.htm

 

[ograc]

Wondering out loud... with the recent overwhelming rejection of the DL 141 TA at UA what has the District Leadership and the UA NC taken away from the outcome of the ratification vote? The way I see it they will view it one of two ways. 1.) A humbling wake-up call to change their course and emphasis in negotiations to be more in line with what the membership is truly seeking and less in line with what's best for the District and the IAM. Or 2.) The ratification rejection was the result of not enough time to fully explain their TA, problems with the mail in ballot process, members not reading the entire agreement, membership apathy, CO employees being formally unrepresented, deflect blame, etc... Time will tell what their take and subsequent actions will be. IMO... their take will have a profound impact on our negotiations at US Fleet and quite possibly the future of the IAM on US Fleet property. Remember... with a potential representation election in the future the TWU and other unions are like wolves at the door. Anyone have any indication which way their leaning?