April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[freedom]

You have been through one merger, and its still not complete and there was layoffs.

You are not a trade unionist, you are all about freedom and screwed your union brothers and sisters, thats the facts jack.

US and the DOJ and DOT have held NO talks about the merger, so where is the agreement?

hmm i'm not sure I should be arguing with someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word implicit .... LOL JK .....

yah no , I love ya 700 , your great for brining the facts that we so lack on this board ...

There were layoffs ...it's sad ... we are still feeling the effects of that today ..but in the end I think for our remaining membership , it was worth it to have a LIVING WAGE ..

The East side of the network had their shot on a good contract , you the IAM came in and booted out our former union the TWU ... you called the shots ...The first contract that was presented to us was substandard , so you voted it down , you said the second contract would be better ...The second contract was almost the same as the first ...

It was your failed membership/leadership that gave us the contract that we now have today ... if your unhappy with it , blame yourselves .

As for me , i'm moving on from the past ... what matters now is our future , but I have learned from our mistakes , and not just the mistakes that were made in the west , but also from the mistakes that were made in the east ...

One of the ways the company sold the new contract to all of us , was by delaying in time the outsourcing of the stations ...

Robbed is also correct in that any new agreement needs to be read over VERY carefully ..we must make sure there is NEVER another 60 day clause ...

we also need to take some sort of leadership on our sick policy because it's ridiculous .

 

[robbedagain]

hmm i'm not sure I should be arguing with someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word implicit .... LOL JK .....

yah no , I love ya 700 , your great for brining the facts that we so lack on this board ...

There were layoffs ...it's sad ... we are still feeling the effects of that today ..but in the end I think for our remaining membership , it was worth it to have a LIVING WAGE ..

The East side of the network had their shot on a good contract , you the IAM came in and booted out our former union the TWU ... you called the shots ...The first contract that was presented to us was substandard , so you voted it down , you said the second contract would be better ...The second contract was almost the same as the first ...

It was your failed membership/leadership that gave us the contract that we now have today ... if your unhappy with it , blame yourselves .

As for me , i'm moving on from the past ... what matters now is our future , but I have learned from our mistakes , and not just the mistakes that were made in the west , but also from the mistakes that were made in the east ...

One of the ways the company sold the new contract to all of us , was by delaying in time the outsourcing of the stations ...

Robbed is also correct in that any new agreement needs to be read over VERY carefully ..we must make sure there is NEVER another 60 day clause ...

we also need to take some sort of leadership on our sick policy because it's ridiculous .

had the 08 contract been rejected as it should had been thenthe company would have been forced to come up with a better deal. the 60 day rule was just one of the bad things the sick too.. but in my station i work with some west folks who turned down the 08 deal bec they too read the entireity of the contract.... and the TWU sucks just ask any AA folks. you must admit it bec our contract in your eyes was more than likely superior to the twu.. in fact a coworker who came from the west even told me a number of stories includin one where an employee got fired the iam got that person's job back it took a while not sure how long though but it was one of many things ive been told.. WHEN THERE IS ANTHR T/A MORE SCOPE MORE PROTECTION BETTER SICK ETC AND OTHER THINGS NEED TO BE INCLUDED...

 

[Tim Nelson]

For what it's worth none of the TWA guys I work with have anything good to say about the IAMNPF.Men with 1975 seniority laughing about the $300.00 a month they'd be entitled to if they were to retire tomorrow.

Of course they can't actually draw that pension while still actively employed in the industry, so they've got that going for them as well.

There are many problems with the IAMPF. 1. Spousal offset whacks a lot of the defined benefit. 2. Future defined benefits themselves can also get whacked by the IAM trustees and brutally so. Our members didn't just get it whacked a few % points but close to 40% and now only get a defined benefit of about $46 a month starting in 2014, down from $81 a month. You can get it suspended as well if you decide you want to work in the same craft. US AIRWAYS members got stuck with hit as a $48 million concession when the IAM traded off the 401k which had base contributions of up to 8% then another 2% match, and then profit sharing. Got the profit sharing back in 2005 but then somehow that got whacked in 2008 again. The problem with the IAM pension fund is that it is a ponzie scheme. Less actives and more retirees living off of it makes it cousin to the social security structure. So, the IAM either has to organize more members or lower the future benefit. The IAM has reduced future benefits twice in the last 10 years to keep the plan in the green. If it continues losing 3,000 members a month it could go below 300,000 active members soon and may have to tweak it once again in a few years. regards,

 

[700UW]

Once again your posting misinformation, not all IAM members and the company they work for are in the plan,

The pension is not losing 3,000 members a month.

Why are you posting misinformation?

The IAM National Pension Fund is the 6[sup]th[/sup] largest multiemployer pension fund in the United States.

The Fund has approximately $8.4 billion in assets.

The Fund has over 1,750 contributing employer locations.

The Fund pays pension benefits to over 80,000 retirees and beneficiaries, providing them with retirement security.

The Fund has over 100,000 active participants.

 

[Tim Nelson]

#17 roabilly Posted 27 February 2008 - 05:14 PM
Veteran

Registered Member

1,167 posts
Well... Boy's...

Looks like tha Company's wantin' tah pi** us off ! Keep tha network solid !
Has Canale finally grown sum.. or... has New Direction applied 'nough pressure
tahh keep 'um honest ? Time 'l tell. Tim... keep up tha good work !

Members, stay strong...stay solid !

P.S. links to Co. offer and Union response were not workin' on 141.org... anybody got um ?
I COMMUNICATE AS A MEMBER OF THE IAM 141/R, AND NOT AN AIRLINE EMPLOYEE!
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Roa,
Took your advice and decided to educate myself so I went back a few years ago and found some interesting interesting things 1st it would appear that you were quite smitten with the evil emperor Tim Nelson 2nd you seem to have taken some writing courses your grammar is 1000 percent improved great job on that I do have a question or two for you though
If RD puts US in Transition/intergration talks are you going to staunchly oppose like you did before and the other observation I noticed is what happened to all the solidarity and uprising that appeared to be going on back in 08 could it possible be that all the promises of change and transparency and yada yada has grown thin with the membership since NOTHING changed
Roa maybe the memberships not as uneducated as you think maybe they are just tired of the same old BS anyway again thanks for the tip and congrats on learning how to write

Actually Roabily did cartoon work when I asked him to help out in the AirTran campaign in early 2011. It wasn't that he soon discovered there was a law called the RLA but rather his political allegiances stayed with the 141 rising crowd so he had to blame the RLA and claim that our membership is apathetic. The membership isn't apathetic, I have rounded it up at least a half dozen times successfully at US AIRWAYS/United and built undeniable solidarity on each occasion whether I was getting paid [AirTran campaigns, United ramp campaign] or not. What Roabily can't deny is that his political group destroyed the ramp craft at Hawaiian airlines and tried 'fleet service cleansing' at United. Thankfully, the solidarity and activism built up with only $12 stacked up nicely against the $1 million campaign that Roabilly's boys spent of your money to try to blow up most of the scope at United and usher in unlimited part time to raise revenues for the IAM. Hey informer, has Roabily mentioned two things that 141 rising has done yet? You've been asking him for 10 pages now and all he does is see me behind any handle that argues with him. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

@700-- Facts and Stright talk will trump the bullshitters every time. Thanks for you contributions to this forum. Disinformation, and Political Agendas have turned this thread into circus!

Do you have the wage and benefit flow chart for the CWA members at US AIRWAYS and Fleet members? How about the flow chart of all the dopey decisions by your boys at United that decided to toss out the United contract talks and instead jump right in transition talks, when both AFA and IBT chose to get their members compensated FIRST before handing the company transition talks. That's the problem Roabilly, you aren't fooling anyone. Everyone at US AIRWAYS knows the IAM has sucked when compared to the CWA along EVERY line, under the same circumstances. Even the IAM 142 has done much better than IAM 141. Unfortunately, the current eboard of IAM141 chose to take a knife and spear fleet service right in the lungs at United. Thankfully, the spear was deflected. Roabilly, the RLA didn't force your boys to betray your brothers and sisters at United. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Freedom
I here ya about the pension. Unfortunately either way we go on this issue we are going to piss people off. Some say get as much back as you can, others state the same as you. Hopefully when we integrate contracts ( I don't think it will happen before then ) but when we integrate, we can give people some type of option between a pension and a match 401k. Just my opinion.

I like that opinion. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

charlie ,
glad to hear that. Is it a fair assessment to say that the NG team is opposed to leaving sect 6 and that if it happens (without much needed improvements) then we are to assume that RD trumped the team and sided with management..
Not knocking you guys just turning the pages back a few pages in RD book and referring to what he did to his own blood at UA after personally PROMISING his blood that he wouldnt do such a thing. I would suggest don't hang your hat on " the worlds largest carrier" status at present UA is the worlds largest carrier and the T/A he brought back is obviously the worst in the Airline Industry. I also believe that District 141 IAM is currently the LARGEST union on UA's property and couldn't use any of that leverage to bring back a livable contract. I disagree with TIm on the joining the 2 Districts together because as we have just seen at UA it really doesn't scare the company and all that I believe goes back to respect the US management team has NO zero respect for the union heck just look back at what they have done to us in the 5 yrs RD has been in office.

Delaney spends enough time with NC he gets them thinking his way with his dopey 'theories' as him and management prey on a negotiation team that simply needs more education on figuring out leverage. That said, the environment would suggest that a contract will happen prior to an integration. I know Delaney decided to blow up negotiations at United and just walk into transition talks without gaining anything like the IBT or AFA did, but he did so after a representational vote when the 'coast was clear'. For the IAM to have any chance it will have to get an equitable deal. Not saying the situation dictates a completely exhaustive rewritten contract but gaining scope and wage gains is a must. I think there may even be some usefulness in waiting to see what IAM142 gets first. regards,

 

[700UW]

You do realize the mechanics at UA havent been integrated yet?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Once again your posting misinformation, not all IAM members and the company they work for are in the plan,

The pension is not losing 3,000 members a month.

Why are you posting misinformation?

Kindly reread the post. The IAM is losing 3,000 a month. Bottom line. I'm not sure how you could think that the IAMPF was referred to when I was talking about 300,000 active members. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

You do realize the mechanics at UA havent been integrated yet?

The IBT chose to stay in section 6 and get a new contract that was ratified last year as condition for entering transition talks. It is now in transition talks and according to Delaney, the IBT has now moved past the IAM and is ready to sign a second contract while the IAM still hasn't ratified one. Same with AFA. Most of the difference is a direct result of poor decisions by the IAM to give leverage away without getting members compensated. regards,

 

[700UW]

Actually UA and the IBT were in negotiations, not for CO, UA mechanics rejected a tentative and reached an agreement five months later that was ratified by the rank and file, which led to negotiations for a joint agreement,

December 29, 2011

United Airlines, a wholly owned subsidiary of United Continental Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: UAL), today announced that mechanics represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) ratified a new labor agreement with the company.
“This is another important step which benefits our co-workers and contributes to the future success of United,” said Jim Keenan, senior vice president of Technical Operations for United. “We now turn our attention to a joint agreement for all United and Continental mechanics, and are committed to reaching an agreement that is fair to the company and fair to our employees.”
The new agreement covers approximately 5,500 United mechanics. The company and the IBT will soon commence negotiations for a joint collective bargaining agreement for mechanics at both the United and Continental subsidiaries. Continental mechanics represented by the IBT ratified their collective bargaining agreement in November of 2010.

And I cant find anywhere on the web if a joint CBA has been agreed too.

 

[700UW]

Just talked to a friend in PHX, gave me the low down on Freedom, lets just say, he is worse in real life than on the boards.

 

[roabilly]

oh my gosh your going to bring up the past FOREVER ................yes the past is now past .... it's time to move on to the future ......

As I've already stated , I will not accept any new contract that costs it's members their jobs ... even if it's 2, 3 or 4 years down the line ..

but to be completely honest , I don't see this company putting forth a contract that costs our workers jobs .......

US Airways now has an IMPLICT agreement with the United States Government not to eliminate jobs ... ( because that's why the government gave US Air the green light in the first place to do the merger , furthermore , outsourcing would be considered a very bad thing , almost as bad as job losses by the general public and government ) ...

Dude… you are a convoluted enigma wrapped inside of a friggin’ mystery!

 

[freedom]

Just talked to a friend in PHX, gave me the low down on Freedom, lets just say, he is worse in real life than on the boards.

next week on Downton abbey Ramp .....

Does freedom finally Decide between a future with the IAM or the TWU ....

Will 700 Finally leave facts behind for once and speak from the heart ?

Is Tim really every other poster on the message board ?

Stay tuned!!