April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[700UW]

Maccarone was old school union thats why.

 

[Kev3188]

Time for a return to the old school.

The new school ways are ineffectual.

 

[737823]

They now been saddled with Dora Cervantes who worked for southwest. And James "Jack" Carlson who works for United. And Tim Klema who I think worked for NW. Dora is terrible. Carlson is a step in the right direction. Don't know Klema. regards,

Klima's a decent enough guy.

Robert Roach sure has gotten on fine, he paid IAM dues for 27 years when he was a TWA "Ramp Service man" at EWR and JFK, now collects at least $257k per IAM form LM-2, likely considerably more when you consider expenses they pay for him, quite an attractive yield on the 324 months of IAM dues he paid in his career. Clearly he hasn't suffered when his TWA co-workers beared brunt of extended unemployment after the IAM signed away their seniority.

Josh

 

[charlie Brown]

Yours is a misread. Everyone understands that 6 months in negotiations usually doesn't get a TA. I'm not sure how long it will take, but what I'm concerned about is RIGHT NOW and what we already know. We know that management got an agreement with the TWU in 6 months, which we all admit was disrespectful to US AIRWAYS fleet service. And according to the update [the kool aid picture was in Rich's latest update] management isn't even bothering. On top of that, we see other groups mobilizing. For instance, Southwest TWU ramp is picketing after 2 years of talks, and IAM 142 asked for a release. So, if it has been two years and during that time, management is blowing things off and drinking American kool aid like Rich's update said, then what is keeping the negotiation team from pressing Rich to ask for a release or suggesting informational picketing? I know Rich and I know it isn't in his blood so you guys will just keep spinning wheels until management gives you a take it or leave it offer. The non agc negotiators need to make a difference. Informational picketing isn't for the public, it's for the members. It brings members together and it brings the negotiations into the front and center. Ask IAM 142 to join in picketing. IMO, we look like jackasses as IAM142 is doing their own thing, and our District apparently has other plans. Fix it. This merger may happen quickly, let's not get ourselves into a 'quickie' exit strategy which the company is wanting to play you guys. Involve the membership and stop thinking you guys are going to get squat without it. regards,

Ok, I hadn't seen the latest update, so that explains the koolaid.
Yes we agree in negotiations that getting agreements with the TWU is disrespectful. The company obviously wants the TWU over the IAM. But whether you want to believe it or not, we had been making progress in negotiations up until last meeting. Then the company returned our financial proposal with a POS and yes it pissed us off. Tim you and I both know asking to be released is a posturing event anyway. If I'm not mistaken the last work group that the NMB has released from mediation was back in the Clinton admin. Also, like I said, 142 started 6 months ahead of us, and just last month asked for release. We will see how this month goes, and if the company seems to be just jerking us around, then I would say its definitely a possibility we will asks to be released.
As far as getting with 142, I can tell you things are being coordinated with them. Can't help it if you choose not to believe what I say, but that's your right. Things never happen fast enough in section 6 negotiations. That's one of the things the company counts on, is for the membership to get impatient and accept a half ass agreement.

 

[737823]

Tim,
Does the IAM have a bankruptcy agreement for fleet service? Seems they could have used the transition agreement to more effectively negotiate improvements for the membership but they squandered away the opportunity. Is this assertion correct?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[robbedagain]

Josh the 2008 contract is very similar to the 05 agreements with some improvements.. in particular all of the west actually made out bec of the raises they received to bring them up to the current ones but it did cost them roughly 30 cities out there as well as buf ind and some others on the east... for sick pay we still gain 10 sick days a yr but if you have less than 100 sick hrs then you will be paid the first 3 days at 50% rate... then it goes to full on the fourth day raises of 2% 2009 2010 2011 n 12 but as posted in anthr portion the july 2012 raises did not take effect which makes us wonder why there was no grievance filed as clearly there was/is violation... i hope that helps you to figure out the 05 contract outsourced somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 cities with 60 day rule etc but at that time the 05 contract also had class I and class II pays n cities... meaning that class one cities were the hubs and dca.. class 2 cities if they reduced the flights per week down to something like 28 or less a week they could outsource the ramp... pvd and bdl were added to the class 1 city at that point to make the contract go thru in 04 bec if it were for that as i recall the 04 would not have passed

 

[necigrad]

But whether you want to believe it or not, we had been making progress in negotiations up until last meeting. Then the company returned our financial proposal with a POS and yes it pissed us off.

Actually the last two meeting the company has been ill prepared. They didn't have the necessary staff available at either. I'm ASSUMING that the people that do the money stuff are working full time on the merger. If that's the case, in my humble (OK obnoxiously vocal) opinion that means the company has chosen to not participate in negotiations.

 

[roabilly]

The thing you are forgetting Roabily is my point, i.e., other ground unions like the CWA on US AIRWAYS property, and the IBT on United property are under the same RLA but have done 'substantially' better. Nobody is talking about striking anyways but rather the techniques, actions, and strategies of failure that has beset IAM fleet service groups as a result of a legacy of abysmal leadership. You and I agreed that Canale and his 'seniority cleansing', 'class 2 pay' 'contracting out of most stations' needed to go. We also agreed it was time to give someone else a shot. What we presumably don't agree on is that the current eboard has done nothing but continue the legacy of previous regimes. I would even say that Delaney and crew have been worse than the previous one, especially when you look at his fancy for part time and complete blow up of scope. Yes, I haven't changed because the IAM leadership hasn't. It's actually sucked since I have been an IAM member but I will say that Joe Maccarone was decent, and Miklavic was ok. Perhaps MM is ok now. regards,

Nelson, there is little need to prolong this war of ideologies. The Membership will ultimately choose a direction collectively! The misdirected and bellicose arguments you present will never meet my perception of reality regarding the processes, and laws that govern the collective bargaining unit.

I’ve read some of the poster comments here longing for the “old school" days when agreements came quick with little effort. I would ask them to remember; prior to deregulation there was little incentive for carriers to fight with labor, because the markets were protected and guaranteed. I lived through… and was in the work group through those years. I witnessed the changes beginning in the 80’s regarding the ramifications of deregulation. Remember the “People Express” era, and the Continental "Peanuts fares"? These friggin idiots were operating at a loss... while draining revenue from legitimate carriers like US and PI ! In the end... they just filed for BK, and/or merged, while the fat cat bosses got richer!

Today’s environment will require extreme patience, and an uncanny perception for strategy.
In my opinion-- you do not posses any of the above… so there is little need to continue this argument!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nelson, there is little need to prolong this war of ideologies. The Membership will ultimately choose a direction collectively! The misdirected and bellicose arguments you present will never meet my perception of reality regarding the processes, and laws that govern the collective bargaining unit.

I’ve read some of the poster comments here longing for the “old school" days when agreements came quick with little effort. I would ask them to remember; prior to deregulation there was little incentive for carriers to fight with labor, because the markets were protected and guaranteed. I lived through… and was in the work group through those years. I witnessed the changes beginning in the 80’s regarding the ramifications of deregulation. Remember the “People Express” era, and the Continental "Peanuts fares"? These friggin idiots were operating at a loss... while draining revenue from legitimate carriers like US and PI ! In the end... they just filed for BK, and/or merged, while the fat cat bosses got richer!

Today’s environment will require extreme patience, and an uncanny perception for strategy.
In my opinion-- you do not posses any of the above… so there is little need to continue this argument!

Needless to say, you reduce everything down to personal attacks and your political agenda [which are not supported with any sensible argument either]. The bottom line is that the group that we supported in 2008 has failed miserably. What kind of group would bring back a United TA like they did and then push it hard for management? Thankfully, members like me helped coordinate a counter campaign and beat their ass. The current group lacks the 'skillset' which is painfully obvious at this point and lacked patience, although the thing they really lack is commitment to the members. I enjoyed spending $12 against a $1 million campaign to help out the members at United. You are right that I lack extreme patience, it's something I ask and want more of but I'm thankful I was blessed to have enough strategy and patience to be incredibly successful when you paid me. Yeah, I know I'm arrogant but none of us are perfect. At least you can't complain about the job I did when you paid me. Nonetheless, I don't think my argument as to why the CWA at US AIRWAYS, or the other unions at United, have done exceptionally better than the IAM, was answered by you. Instead you offered up a nonsensical rant about deregulation. Sorry Roabily, but focusing on people's express has nothing to do with the present predicament when comparing how the IAM members have been betrayed as other unions have done much much better. Pssssttt, deregulation applies to the CWA as well. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ok, I hadn't seen the latest update, so that explains the koolaid.
Yes we agree in negotiations that getting agreements with the TWU is disrespectful. The company obviously wants the TWU over the IAM. But whether you want to believe it or not, we had been making progress in negotiations up until last meeting. Then the company returned our financial proposal with a POS and yes it pissed us off. Tim you and I both know asking to be released is a posturing event anyway. If I'm not mistaken the last work group that the NMB has released from mediation was back in the Clinton admin. Also, like I said, 142 started 6 months ahead of us, and just last month asked for release. We will see how this month goes, and if the company seems to be just jerking us around, then I would say its definitely a possibility we will asks to be released.
As far as getting with 142, I can tell you things are being coordinated with them. Can't help it if you choose not to believe what I say, but that's your right. Things never happen fast enough in section 6 negotiations. That's one of the things the company counts on, is for the membership to get impatient and accept a half ass agreement.

For the membership to accept a half ass agreement, doesn't that mean that the negotiation team had to beat them to it? I certainly hope you guys have more patience than Delaney and the United or Hawaiian negotiation teams. I wish you the best under Delaney's negotiation techniques which lack trust in the membership. regards,

 

[ograc]

It seems to me UA and US officials have no interest or desire to reach meaningful agreements with the IAM. One only needs to look at the recent UA TA offer and the lack of progress in contract negotiations with DL 142 M&R and DL 141 Fleet Service at US. It seems to me officials at both carriers believe they can effectively impose their will on the members of the IAM. Their posture seems to indicate they believe the IAM has "no Juice". Their posture seems to indicate they view the IAM as being disconnected with the members' interests (UA TA) and lacking the support and solidarity needed from the membership. They aint scared folks. No solidarity = No leverage = No meaningful contract. It's up to the members to change the course and level the playing field.

 

[charlie Brown]

Actually the last two meeting the company has been ill prepared. They didn't have the necessary staff available at either. I'm ASSUMING that the people that do the money stuff are working full time on the merger. If that's the case, in my humble (OK obnoxiously vocal) opinion that means the company has chosen to not participate in negotiations.

Actually the meeting before last, the week was cut short due to the merger being announced. We still were able to get some things done prior to leaving. The point I'm trying to make is, the team as a whole ( and yes the whole team makes the decision) felt like the last meeting was for sure a waste of our time. I believe this is the first time the mediator felt this way too. This is why he moved us from meeting in phx to meeting in DC this month. It's one of the things he can do. I'm just trying to say, we do have the same path available to us as 142 does, and if need be, the next time we will all decide whether we need to take that route, or something else. The RLA has steps you follow in negotiations. We are now at the step if things don't proceed, then we can ask to be released. But asking to be released. And actually being released, are two totally different things. However, it is a posturing move we can use, and I'm sure the issue will come up next meeting.

 

[P. REZ]

Needless to say, you reduce everything down to personal attacks and your political agenda [which are not supported with any sensible argument either]. The bottom line is that the group that we supported in 2008 has failed miserably. What kind of group would bring back a United TA like they did and then push it hard for management? Thankfully, members like me helped coordinate a counter campaign and beat their ass. The current group lacks the 'skillset' which is painfully obvious at this point and lacked patience, although the thing they really lack is commitment to the members. I enjoyed spending $12 against a $1 million campaign to help out the members at United. You are right that I lack extreme patience, it's something I ask and want more of but I'm thankful I was blessed to have enough strategy and patience to be incredibly successful when you paid me. Yeah, I know I'm arrogant but none of us are perfect. At least you can't complain about the job I did when you paid me. Nonetheless, I don't think my argument as to why the CWA at US AIRWAYS, or the other unions at United, have done exceptionally better than the IAM, was answered by you. Instead you offered up a nonsensical rant about deregulation. Sorry Roabily, but focusing on people's express has nothing to do with the present predicament when comparing how the IAM members have been betrayed as other unions have done much much better. Pssssttt, deregulation applies to the CWA as well. regards,

Tim,

Practice what you preach. If you are going to talk BS about me I challenge you to at least know WTF you are talking about. I will make this simple, quit politically bashing me unless you have the nads to at least contact me before spreading your self serving, politicized BS. You have never done anything but go by hearsay regarding me. What do you say Tim, man up or spew your BS on your computer wearing your skirt?

 

[roabilly]

Tim,

Practice what you preach. If you are going to talk BS about me I challenge you to at least know WTF you are talking about. I will make this simple, quit politically bashing me unless you have the nads to at least contact me before spreading your self serving, politicized BS. You have never done anything but go by hearsay regarding me. What do you say Tim, man up or spew your BS on your computer wearing your skirt?

uhhmmm... I thought he was talkin' to me...

 

[Kev3188]

Same here... Glad I wasn't the only one...