April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[Tim Nelson]

I think the DL should let Tim sit on so he can really see the process.

I was at US from 1989 till 2005, been though several contract negotiations and one of them took 4 1/2 years.

When he finally educates himself on the RLA and the process and see how one side or the other uses the RLA to stall then maybe he will finally get it.

Look at AA the were in negotiations prior to bankruptcy for over three years, might even be longer.

Once again the RLA was set up to protect Interstate Commerce, that was and still is its main goal.

You seemed fixated on the RLA and play your violin to it. This is about the membership. Negotiation teams need to trust the membership and stand on the shoulders of the members by getting them involved in participation events. The RLA process will take care of itself. Not trusting the membership and continuing the same dumb path that Delaney charted United and Hawaiian on is just stupid. At least IAM142 filed for a release. It wouldn't matter if me or anyone else was on the negotiation team if I followed the same path. Management would kick my ass in negotiations if I didn't allow the membership to be the real negotiation team. The negotiation room has a few chairs and table and is the image of negotiations. Real negotiations happens through activism outside the negotiation room and that's what this current bunch doesn't seem to comprehend. I'm tired of the goofy pictures on the web page. regards,

 

[700UW]

You mean the membership that is apathetic and doesnt even attend the monthly union meetings?

Since you havent been in contract negotiations, you certainly dont get it.

There are reps, rank and file members, lawyers at times, actuaries, and the company.

The power of the committee comes from the membership.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You mean the membership that is apathetic and doesnt even attend the monthly union meetings?

Since you havent been in contract negotiations, you certainly dont get it.

There are reps, rank and file members, lawyers at times, actuaries, and the company.

The power of the committee comes from the membership.

700, no, not a membership that is apathetic. You sound like Delaney, for management's sake, when he incorrectly expected the United membership to be apathetic. The membership at United was strong and our campaign activated them. I only suggest that the negotiation team activate the US AIRWAYS membership. It hasn't. As far as local meetings, you and most union leaders falsely measure a memberships resolve by meeting attendance. Last century, meeting attendance was up because that was the only place to go to for information. With technology, members get their information online and can reallocate their time. Why would anyone go to a local meeting to hear how much the light bill was, the next retiree luncheon or to hear a negotiation report that was posted online? The union leadership of the IAM has no skillset in understanding culture shifts and the process of socialization. That doesn't mean they are dumb asses, just that their education skillset isn't interdisciplinary. Local meeting attendance is not a barometer or measurement of the health of a particular membership. Again, you and others have no educational skillset to understand that such thinking is now caveman in nature. regards,

 

[700UW]

And you know it all?

If you are so good at polarizing the membership, how come you cant get elected when you run for office?

And glad to see its all about insults with you and not facts.

Other things go on at meetings, besides financial reports.

 

[Tim Nelson]

And you know it all?

If you are so good at polarizing the membership, how come you cant get elected when you run for office?

And glad to see its all about insults with you and not facts.

Other things go on at meetings, besides financial reports.

Polarizing the membership, when? I have been responsible for being a big part of building unity within the membership getting them to stick together against nasty management ta's, and built incredible solidarity that was responsible for winning almost 20,000 IAM members. The members are sacred, you are the one who talks down to the membership as you edify the leadership. Do I know everything? No. I've been wrong a lot in my life but I know how to build solidarity and how to activate a membership against injustice. Isn't that the reason why the IAM hired me to protect their interest against the Teamsters? OTOH, you can't go 5 words without dogging the membership. Kindly go over the last 10 years of my post and if you can find one post where I dogged the membership you have done well. There is a vast disconnection from the leadership to the membership although the IAM leadership conduit to management is quite alive and kicking. And what I have done is magnified this to the members. The membership isn't apathetic. If anything online resources has made them more educated and informed on both the process and path to Justice. regards,

 

[roabilly]

Nelson... Perhaps you should "fixate" on RLA and stop pretending it doesn’t exist. I’ve watched the strongest group on the property (Pilots) implode, divide, and go without a contract for over five years. I also observed them lose an expensive court case to the company regarding the "safety campaign" that was construed as… and legally deemed a Work Action by the court system. The company had them by the balls, and could have finished them off finically if they had so chosen. This was ALL accomplished under the letter of the LAW, and there was not one single thing that their newly formed Union could do to prevent it.

You continue to preach gloom and doom, weakness, and corruption by the Union Leaders, and never even acknowledge the facts, laws, processes, or legal ramifications of violating those processes. You claim I use the RLA as an excuse… I’ve got news… it’s an inescapable Federal LAW… period.

You are living in a Political Fantasy Land. The same one you have been living in since the 80’s. When I first I read you writings decades ago, I knew very little about Labor Laws, processes, and worker rights, now I do, so don’t treat me like a neophyte!

 

[700UW]

Company still not moving in M&R Negotiations.
http://www.iamdl142....013MandR-36.pdf

 

[ograc]

Yours is a misread. Everyone understands that 6 months in negotiations usually doesn't get a TA. I'm not sure how long it will take, but what I'm concerned about is RIGHT NOW and what we already know. We know that management got an agreement with the TWU in 6 months, which we all admit was disrespectful to US AIRWAYS fleet service. And according to the update [the kool aid picture was in Rich's latest update] management isn't even bothering. On top of that, we see other groups mobilizing. For instance, Southwest TWU ramp is picketing after 2 years of talks, and IAM 142 asked for a release. So, if it has been two years and during that time, management is blowing things off and drinking American kool aid like Rich's update said, then what is keeping the negotiation team from pressing Rich to ask for a release or suggesting informational picketing? I know Rich and I know it isn't in his blood so you guys will just keep spinning wheels until management gives you a take it or leave it offer. The non agc negotiators need to make a difference. Informational picketing isn't for the public, it's for the members. It brings members together and it brings the negotiations into the front and center. Ask IAM 142 to join in picketing. IMO, we look like jackasses as IAM142 is doing their own thing, and our District apparently has other plans. Fix it. This merger may happen quickly, let's not get ourselves into a 'quickie' exit strategy which the company is wanting to play you guys. Involve the membership and stop thinking you guys are going to get squat without it. regards,

Informational picketing is indeed intended for the public's attention and sympathy. Again, the apathetic or intimidated member will not be part of it and the traveling public couldn't care less. Wrong arena IMO Tim. I do agree though the District needs to rally the membership in some form to show a solidified front. Unfortunately, to date, this has not been worked on. Based on the recent election results; it was quite clear the newly elected team needed and should have taken measures to improve solidarity among the Fleet members. You are correct with your assesment... there has been no preliminary work done. The question is... how long will this membership wait for a leadership team to unite the group? As stated before... time is running out while we theorize and chatter. IMO... the membership cannot afford to wait. There are things the membership could be doing "in house" that would raise awareness with the company and afford the NC some leverage at the table.

 

[psa8979]

F/S D-141 Brothers and Sisters WE have two options IMO. 1st option - WE are able to obtain a Section-6 New CBA with LCC and D/P. Second Option - WE follow our D-142 Brothers and Sisters and ask to be released by the NMB. Once this is done WE either work together with TWU to form a Single UNION or prepare for a BLOODY NMB election. Contracts and Hire Date for ALL !

 

[700UW]

Work together with the TWU?

Seriously?

There chapter 11 CBA is worse than US.

And the IAM and TWU will be in a fight to represent the group, they wont be working together anytime soon.

 

[psa8979]

No Brother I don't kid when facing reality. The Airline Corporations have consolidated their Business's to survive and make profit $. So must the Unions as many have all ready. For their Members survival and future. Unions Leadership must face the New 21st Century Business Model and Lead from the Bottom Up not the Top Down for their survival.

 

[ChockJockey]

I believe the pilots lost the injunction against their silly work slowdown because the company was able to prove that the union was involved in perpetuating and supporting it, and that was what made it illegal. Had they done so not under the auspices of USAPA there may have been a different outcome...

 

[700UW]

The data showed an increase in write ups from the pilots.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204226204576599142580880816.html

In the ruling, Judge Conrad said the union "has expressly tied the success of their 'fight' for a new contract to actions by their member pilots that would slow down the airline but could be cloaked by (a) safety campaign." He also said the union "does not dispute that it has encouraged pilots to change their behavior regarding maintenance write-ups, calling in fatigued and pre-flight procedures that affect taxi times."The judge concluded that USAPA "has encouraged a much broader job action through slogans like "Safety First" and "I'm On Board," and that there is insufficient evidence to hold Mr. Cleary, the union chief, individually responsible for the slowdown.

The court ordered the union to refrain from "instigating, authorizing or encouraging" interference with US Airways operations and to instruct all pilots to resume their normal working schedules and practices

 

[ograc]

F/S D-141 Brothers and Sisters WE have two options IMO. 1st option - WE are able to obtain a Section-6 New CBA with LCC and D/P. Second Option - WE follow our D-142 Brothers and Sisters and ask to be released by the NMB. Once this is done WE either work together with TWU to form a Single UNION or prepare for a BLOODY NMB election. Contracts and Hire Date for ALL !

Imo.. second option - asking to be released by the NMB, although noteworthy, will never happen with the NMB. The NMB will not release two bargaining units on the same property. For the sake of posturing though... it wouldn't hurt DL 141 to do so. 1st option... IMO I don't see LCC and DP agreeing to a new contract with the IAM represented Fleet Service employees prior to a representation election. I think the company wants an election and is hoping the TWU wins representation rights. What does that tell you? I hope our NC stands firm. Meaning... don't further damage the IAM's reputation, by bringing back a similar UA TA for the membership to resoundingly reject. Let's play the cards dealt us. It's time for our NC and this District to stand their ground. Otherwise; I believe will be forced to work together with the TWU to form a single sub par contract.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nelson... Perhaps you should "fixate" on RLA and stop pretending it doesn’t exist. I’ve watched the strongest group on the property (Pilots) implode, divide, and go without a contract for over five years. I also observed them lose an expensive court case to the company regarding the "safety campaign" that was construed as… and legally deemed a Work Action by the court system. The company had them by the balls, and could have finished them off finically if they had so chosen. This was ALL accomplished under the letter of the LAW, and there was not one single thing that their newly formed Union could do to prevent it.

You continue to preach gloom and doom, weakness, and corruption by the Union Leaders, and never even acknowledge the facts, laws, processes, or legal ramifications of violating those processes. You claim I use the RLA as an excuse… I’ve got news… it’s an inescapable Federal LAW… period.

You are living in a Political Fantasy Land. The same one you have been living in since the 80’s. When I first I read you writings decades ago, I knew very little about Labor Laws, processes, and worker rights, now I do, so don’t treat me like a neophyte!

The thing you are forgetting Roabily is my point, i.e., other ground unions like the CWA on US AIRWAYS property, and the IBT on United property are under the same RLA but have done 'substantially' better. Nobody is talking about striking anyways but rather the techniques, actions, and strategies of failure that has beset IAM fleet service groups as a result of a legacy of abysmal leadership. You and I agreed that Canale and his 'seniority cleansing', 'class 2 pay' 'contracting out of most stations' needed to go. We also agreed it was time to give someone else a shot. What we presumably don't agree on is that the current eboard has done nothing but continue the legacy of previous regimes. I would even say that Delaney and crew have been worse than the previous one, especially when you look at his fancy for part time and complete blow up of scope. Yes, I haven't changed because the IAM leadership hasn't. It's actually sucked since I have been an IAM member but I will say that Joe Maccarone was decent, and Miklavic was ok. Perhaps MM is ok now. regards,