April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[Kev3188]

There were two fundamental problems I had with the Delta campaign that I tried to change with Roach but was unsuccessful.

The mistakes made were legion. I could go on all night, but here's a couple of highlights:

*Roach wasn't too interested in hearing what any of us on the line had to say, either.

*IMO, the key to winning "hearts and minds" is having the discussion in the future tense. 143 couldn't help but look backward. Made perfect sense to us at NW, but not to DL employees.

*Same story with vilifying Anderson. Like it or not, people on the DL side don't much mind him.

*DL is masterful when it comes to messaging/manufacturing of opinion. Same story with leveraging tribal identity. The only thing that overcomes that is a grassroots, face-to-face campaign. One on one, one at a time. 143 ignored the calls for that style of organizing, convinced that methods that last worked in 1986 would work. You of course know all about that; I'm just noting it for those reading along.

*They took NW stations for granted as a guaranteed "yes." Bad move.

*The literature they put out was often inaccurate, occasionally had typos, and at the end grew increasingly classless.

In the end, it really came down to 143 not knowing it's audience, or how to to relate to it. That goes for both PM employee groups.

 

[ograc]

Harry I for one agree with you and have felt this way since the merger was announced. That no show BS they pulled last month just backs it up. They have no reason or incentive to offer a contract much less a decent one. Federal laws keeps the union from doing anything worth a damn to force their hand and sorry I don't think some guys outside the airport with some picket signs are going to do jack to make them offer a good contract. I hope I'm wrong but that is how I feel.

cltrat,
IMO... informational picketing of the public will not have the desired impact. The public couldn't care less about any labor organization's concerns or problems with their employer. With that being said... I agree with your assesment. Pressure must come from within. As stated in a previous post... coordinated pressure should and can be applied by the members themselves. Legally; there is only so much the IAM Leadership can do. It's time the membership "drops the gloves" and fights their own fight. The District Leadership will have to follow the lead. We're running out of time. Unfortunately, based on the district's refusal to address apathy and building solidarity within the group, I'm convinced this grass roots "call to arms" will be difficult to accomplish. I hope I'm wrong. Additionally, it should be duly noted, this failure to promote engagment of the membership and solidarity has been a fundamental failure, of not only this leadership team, but past leadership teams as well. The state of affairs we find ourselves in is past and present leadership not promoting, to the best of their ability, solidarity and engagement of the members. Likewise, a membership that expects the leadership to fight their battles without any involvement or committment from themselves. For the sake of all of our futures ...it's time to "drop the gloves"! For if this trend continues... it will be the demise of all. The District Officers and the membership.

 

[Tim Nelson]

This it the quagmire that CWA could have with piedmont and mainline

I'm not a big Velvet fan but I my hope would be that BT from PHL and the guy from BOS if he is still around would be voices that would make sure that mainline work would expand. Not up on the CWA politics but when the representational dispute comes as a result of the AMR merger, I would hope that the CWA would utilize BT if she is still involved, on the organizing front and not fall over themselves trying to take credit. regards,

 

[737823]

*Roach wasn't too interested in hearing what any of us on the line had to say, either.

Funny, Roach has said before that he "tries to see things how a member sees them". When was the last time he worked in the pit of an aircraft? TWA hasn't existed since early 2002 when it was integrated into AA, besides has held cushy Grand Lodge positions for many years. I have to ask, why does the IAM have many leaders from carriers that not only no longer have IAM representation but also no longer exist? Why can't the transportation division have higher up leadership from AS, HA, UA, US, or other carriers that currently have IAM representation? I've always though Roach was out of touch with the membership and your post is only another example. Doesn't seem Sito Pantoja is any better, he was peddling the UA T/A as a great agreement and he is "extremely proud", clearly the membership didn't think so.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Funny, Roach has said before that he "tries to see things how a member sees them". When was the last time he worked in the pit of an aircraft? TWA hasn't existed since early 2002 when it was integrated into AA, besides has held cushy Grand Lodge positions for many years. I have to ask, why does the IAM have many leaders from carriers that not only no longer have IAM representation but also no longer exist? Why can't the transportation division have higher up leadership from AS, HA, UA, US, or other carriers that currently have IAM representation? I've always though Roach was out of touch with the membership and your post is only another example. Doesn't seem Sito Pantoja is any better, he was peddling the UA T/A as a great agreement and he is "extremely proud", clearly the membership didn't think so.

Josh

They now been saddled with Dora Cervantes who worked for southwest. And James "Jack" Carlson who works for United. And Tim Klema who I think worked for NW. Dora is terrible. Carlson is a step in the right direction. Don't know Klema. regards,

 

[Kev3188]

Klima's a decent enough guy.

 

[charlie Brown]

Right now I think the focus should be bringing the two "IAM's together in visible ways. You yourself have been in the negotiation room for two years now. The company doesn't bother with you guys, negotiates contracts with groups on other airlines, and you guys think now is the time to put up a pretty picture with some kool aid print under it? Really? I don't follow your 'when picketing is necessary' idea because if it isn't necessary now then when is it? Hell the other IAM asked for a release. Kumbuya...... all talk! regards,

Tim
First of all, yes we have been in negotiations for awhile now. Why don't you tell me how long you expected to be in negotiations?? Your a smart guy, you know the history of negotiations in the airline industry, did you expect to have a deal in 6 months or something. It amazes me how many people on here want the negotiating committee to stay strong for the membership, then #### that we don't have an agreement in 6 months. Those 2 things don't go hand in hand. And please clarify the put up a pretty picture. Not sure what you mean by that. I don't put up a pretty picture for anyone. You know that!! I do my best to tell people what I feel is happening, and keep them informed as much as possible.

 

[charlie Brown]

Right now I think the focus should be bringing the two "IAM's together in visible ways. You yourself have been in the negotiation room for two years now. The company doesn't bother with you guys, negotiates contracts with groups on other airlines, and you guys think now is the time to put up a pretty picture with some kool aid print under it? Really? I don't follow your 'when picketing is necessary' idea because if it isn't necessary now then when is it? Hell the other IAM asked for a release. Kumbuya...... all talk! regards,

Tim
First of all, yes we have been in negotiations for awhile now. Why don't you tell me how long you expected to be in negotiations?? Your a smart guy, you know the history of negotiations in the airline industry, did you expect to have a deal in 6 months or something. It amazes me how many people on here want the negotiating committee to stay strong for the membership, then #### that we don't have an agreement in 6 months. Those 2 things don't go hand in hand. And please clarify the put up a pretty picture. Not sure what you mean by that. I don't put up a pretty picture for anyone. You know that!! I do my best to tell people what I feel is happening, and keep them informed as much as possible.

 

[wings396]

Go ask the CWA reps, the company recognized it as the company wouldnt negotiate improvements in the CBA, the west agents just transitioned to the east cba, with no improvements to the east agents.

M&R and Fleet got improvements int their transition agreement, CWA did not.

Go ask Velvet, I know her outside of the work arena, and go ask Hemenway if you dont believe me.

But you know it all tim and your are always right and no one else is and if their opinion and facts differ with timmy's world, you make accusations against them.

Don't leave out the items that were lost at the same time such as profit sharing, and snapbacks. Feels great to sit on the sidelines and watch the CSA group collect their profit sharing checks, heck even the PI people are getting a slice.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
First of all, yes we have been in negotiations for awhile now. Why don't you tell me how long you expected to be in negotiations?? Your a smart guy, you know the history of negotiations in the airline industry, did you expect to have a deal in 6 months or something. It amazes me how many people on here want the negotiating committee to stay strong for the membership, then #### that we don't have an agreement in 6 months. Those 2 things don't go hand in hand. And please clarify the put up a pretty picture. Not sure what you mean by that. I don't put up a pretty picture for anyone. You know that!! I do my best to tell people what I feel is happening, and keep them informed as much as possible.

Yours is a misread. Everyone understands that 6 months in negotiations usually doesn't get a TA. I'm not sure how long it will take, but what I'm concerned about is RIGHT NOW and what we already know. We know that management got an agreement with the TWU in 6 months, which we all admit was disrespectful to US AIRWAYS fleet service. And according to the update [the kool aid picture was in Rich's latest update] management isn't even bothering. On top of that, we see other groups mobilizing. For instance, Southwest TWU ramp is picketing after 2 years of talks, and IAM 142 asked for a release. So, if it has been two years and during that time, management is blowing things off and drinking American kool aid like Rich's update said, then what is keeping the negotiation team from pressing Rich to ask for a release or suggesting informational picketing? I know Rich and I know it isn't in his blood so you guys will just keep spinning wheels until management gives you a take it or leave it offer. The non agc negotiators need to make a difference. Informational picketing isn't for the public, it's for the members. It brings members together and it brings the negotiations into the front and center. Ask IAM 142 to join in picketing. IMO, we look like jackasses as IAM142 is doing their own thing, and our District apparently has other plans. Fix it. This merger may happen quickly, let's not get ourselves into a 'quickie' exit strategy which the company is wanting to play you guys. Involve the membership and stop thinking you guys are going to get squat without it. regards,

 

[roabilly]

Tim
First of all, yes we have been in negotiations for awhile now. Why don't you tell me how long you expected to be in negotiations?? Your a smart guy, you know the history of negotiations in the airline industry, did you expect to have a deal in 6 months or something. It amazes me how many people on here want the negotiating committee to stay strong for the membership, then #### that we don't have an agreement in 6 months. Those 2 things don't go hand in hand. And please clarify the put up a pretty picture. Not sure what you mean by that. I don't put up a pretty picture for anyone. You know that!! I do my best to tell people what I feel is happening, and keep them informed as much as possible.

Charlie,

I've been attempting to educate the members on the realities of negations under the RLA for years... as has 700-- it seems some people would rather attempt to undermine solidarity with false promises, and the old "I can do much better" argument". This bullshit is completely politically motivated!

Thanks for coming in here with factual information... of course, you will be challenged repeatedly, so prepare for the purveyors of bullshit to ride the wave!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Charlie,

I've been attempting to educate the members on the realities of negations under the RLA for years... as has 700-- it seems some people would rather attempt to undermine solidarity with false promises, and the old "I can do much better" argument". This bullshit is completely politically motivated!

Thanks for coming in here with factual information... of course, you will be challenged repeatedly, so prepare for the purveyors of bullshit to ride the wave!

Roabily, if they continue the present course without involving the membership,and blaming the RLA, what will they gain? Why do other unions choose different paths? The only thing political is your agenda. You never engage in an actual discussion other than saying Tim this or Tim that. BTW, the RLA has been around since 1934 or so for the airlines and has worked quite well in attaining solid wages and benefits. It forces mediation, allows a closed shop, supersedes right to work laws, etc. Although the negotiation process can be tedious, involving the membership is foundational. This group has followed the same path of Hawaiian and United and it is easy for me to see by watching the actions and not listening to the words. And there is nothing wrong with me or anyone else telling them to get their collective heads out of Delaney's ass and start involving the membership. If the company is drinking American Kool aid, then why isn't now a good time to put negotiations at front and center for the members by asking them to informational picket? Why not ask for a release like other unions do? They are blowing off both districts so why does one ask for a release and the other walks around with their finger up their asses and put up pretty pictures of an American airlines jet with kool aid? Sorry but nice pictures and a bunch of hot air aren't the answer! regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
First of all, yes we have been in negotiations for awhile now. Why don't you tell me how long you expected to be in negotiations?? Your a smart guy, you know the history of negotiations in the airline industry, did you expect to have a deal in 6 months or something. It amazes me how many people on here want the negotiating committee to stay strong for the membership, then #### that we don't have an agreement in 6 months. Those 2 things don't go hand in hand. And please clarify the put up a pretty picture. Not sure what you mean by that. I don't put up a pretty picture for anyone. You know that!! I do my best to tell people what I feel is happening, and keep them informed as much as possible.

Help Police Murder!!! Sheeeessshhhh. Put down the violin would you? Do something! And, BTW, since you sit on the eboard, how about informing the membership why we are wanting to have AA eagle cards signed? And who is doing the campaign? All Bull &**& because I sit here in ORD with 1,0000 eagle employees and you guys don't even now how to use resources that may be available to you. Sheesh!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Charlie,

I've been attempting to educate the members on the realities of negations under the RLA for years... as has 700-- it seems some people would rather attempt to undermine solidarity with false promises, and the old "I can do much better" argument". This bullshit is completely politically motivated!

Thanks for coming in here with factual information... of course, you will be challenged repeatedly, so prepare for the purveyors of bullshit to ride the wave!

If I were being politically motivated I would just sit back and watch the wheels come off. A known commodity is great in politics and having the nasty ass United TA ratified would have spelled certain 'doom' for the 141 rising crowd. But I was compelled to fight against it, and in doing so, these guys have second life. If they come up with a fair contract at United then what will be the fuss? regards,

 

[700UW]

I think the DL should let Tim sit on so he can really see the process.

I was at US from 1989 till 2005, been though several contract negotiations and one of them took 4 1/2 years.

When he finally educates himself on the RLA and the process and see how one side or the other uses the RLA to stall then maybe he will finally get it.

Look at AA the were in negotiations prior to bankruptcy for over three years, might even be longer.

Once again the RLA was set up to protect Interstate Commerce, that was and still is its main goal.