APFA Demands Recall of ALL Flight Attendants

[aafsc]

The obvious implication of your post is that "old meat" is defective, tainted or somehow unworthy. We don't know at all all AA does not want the TWAers back. In fact it seems that many members of APFA do not want TWAers back and publically say so. You are showing age discrimination.

Or maybe they just don't want to be cooped up for 5 hours on a transcon with some ex-TWA F/A going on and on about how they were screwed.

 

[eolesen]

Congress has no problem inserting itself in the collective bargaining process when they think an impending strike might disrupt the nation's air travel.

They have the power to force arbitration. They don't rewrite CBA's, nor do they make unilateral decisions which impact -all- CBA's.

One of the frustrating things about this furlough is that it isn't seen to be a result of 9/11.

That's because it wasn't due to 9/11. The FA furloughs seem to be more tied to the decision to close down STL as a hub and downsize the domestic operation accordingly.

Believe what you want, but with or without 9/11, STL would have eventually been pared back.

The five year recall outlined in the AA/APFA CBA goes back to an era when it was unheard of for a furlough to last anywhere near that long.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I think that anyone furloughed from AA should have the right to return before anyone is hired off the street.

But the fact is that APFA appears to have had a chance to extend recall, and chose not to do so because the company was asking for them to provide contractual relief in other areas in exchange. Unfortunately, your union decided that protecting what was left of the contract was more important than looking out for the rights of the furloughed.

 

[Skymess]

The obvious implication of your post is that "old meat" is defective, tainted or somehow unworthy. We don't know at all all AA does not want the TWAers back. In fact it seems that many members of APFA do not want TWAers back and publically say so. You are showing age discrimination.

My personal issue regarding the furlough situation is definitely about me. Sorry. I would like extended recall rights if it does not interfere with my paycheck. I simply can't afford to give anything else up.

If thAAt AAppeAArs selfish of me thAAn so be it.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

My personal issue regarding the furlough situation is definitely about me. Sorry. I would like extended recall rights if it does not interfere with my paycheck. I simply can't afford to give anything else up.

If thAAt AAppeAArs selfish of me thAAn so be it.

I agree. As I've stated before, I'm not willing to give up any more concessions to extend recall rights, and the fact that the same people that we are talking about express such hostility and hope that we fail certainly doesn't encourage my empathy any longer.

 

[nbmcg01]

I agree. As I've stated before, I'm not willing to give up any more concessions to extend recall rights, and the fact that the same people that we are talking about express such hostility and hope that we fail certainly doesn't encourage my empathy any longer.

That is the whole point! NOBODY thinks there should be ANY cost associated with extended recall. It has been paid for with $600,000,000 in shared sacrifice or as I stated above, the ultimate concession.

AA stated that these furloughs were 9-11 related, not us, not the APFA. So AA, pony up and do the right thing.

As for the comment about being on a jumpseat for 5 hours: 1. If you're sitting on a jumpseat for 5 hours, you have more issues than flying with your furloughed peers..lol
2. Those returning want to be back flying. Having flown for years with these men and women, I can assure you that there are far more pressing topics to talk about...you all got screwed for one. Everyone. I went through 15 years of post strike flying and on the plane it was nothing but professional. There were certain crews that CHOSE not to socialize on layovers but on the plane, not a chance.

You are perceiving problems that just aren't there. Maybe too much listening to the rantings of JN and I don't mean John Nikides. Give it a chance and you might be pleasantly surprised. Remember the more back, the less reserve, less extended trips, and very possibly more bid leaves.

There is the usual "chicken little", "THEY" will control the voting rhetoric. Instead of preaching discrimination against ones peers, perhaps that time would be better spent educating apathetic voters on the importance of having their voices heard. That is what astounds me...blame people for actually taking the 2 minutes necessary to vote. Now that is unbelievable. When 80% don't bother, why condemn those who are willing to "express" their wishes? EDUCATE don't castigate.

 

[L1011Ret]

Or maybe they just don't want to be cooped up for 5 hours on a transcon with some ex-TWA F/A going on and on about how they were screwed.

With your hostility, it is understandable why any F/As would not want to listen to your negative rationalizations for 5 hours.

 

[kirkpatrick]

That's because it wasn't due to 9/11. The FA furloughs seem to be more tied to the decision to close down STL as a hub and downsize the domestic operation accordingly.

You're totally off base on this one. The concessionary contract signed in April of 2003 meant the company needed approximately 2400 fewer FA's than before not counting any further reductions or downsizing in STL. No one can say that contract and the situation that led to it wasn't due to 9/11.

MK

 

[StraaightTaalk]

That is the whole point! NOBODY thinks there should be ANY cost associated with extended recall. It has been paid for with $600,000,000 in shared sacrifice or as I stated above, the ultimate concession.

AA stated that these furloughs were 9-11 related, not us, not the APFA. So AA, pony up and do the right thing.

As for the comment about being on a jumpseat for 5 hours: 1. If you're sitting on a jumpseat for 5 hours, you have more issues than flying with your furloughed peers..lol
2. Those returning want to be back flying. Having flown for years with these men and women, I can assure you that there are far more pressing topics to talk about...you all got screwed for one. Everyone. I went through 15 years of post strike flying and on the plane it was nothing but professional. There were certain crews that CHOSE not to socialize on layovers but on the plane, not a chance.

You are perceiving problems that just aren't there. Maybe too much listening to the rantings of JN and I don't mean John Nikides. Give it a chance and you might be pleasantly surprised. Remember the more back, the less reserve, less extended trips, and very possibly more bid leaves.

There is the usual "chicken little", "THEY" will control the voting rhetoric. Instead of preaching discrimination against ones peers, perhaps that time would be better spent educating apathetic voters on the importance of having their voices heard. That is what astounds me...blame people for actually taking the 2 minutes necessary to vote. Now that is unbelievable. When 80% don't bother, why condemn those who are willing to "express" their wishes? EDUCATE don't castigate.

I have always maintained an open mind about the recall issue, and took some abuse from my flying partners for advocating recalls and extending recall rights. It was only when I came back to this board and saw how some of your own people either wish us ill will, or make nasty remarks about my own work group, that you lost my empathy.

It does make me sad, but it's how I feel. I feel very defeated by what I have read, especially since I have been so open about the issue.

 

[nbmcg01]

I have always maintained an open mind about the recall issue, and took some abuse from my flying partners for advocating recalls and extending recall rights. It was only when I came back to this board and saw how some of your own people either wish us ill will, or make nasty remarks about my own work group, that you lost my empathy.

It does make me sad, but it's how I feel. I feel very defeated by what I have read, especially since I have been so open about the issue.

Nobody wishes ill of any f/a. I have never read that sentiment expressed here or anywhere else (except on 4M). What you seem to be forgetting is your "own" work group includes the very people you now choose not to support. If anything I am encouraged by what I have read. The "good wishes" extended after the first recall (and I do believe there will be more), the walking (and talking) side by side during the recent picketing are all evidence that this can and will be a unified work force. We may have differences of opinions on various issues but that does not nor will it reflect on any professional job on the plane. In any working "office" you will have differences of philosophies and the who did what when and where... It does not mean that the work at hand will not be done or the working conditions will be uncomfortable...Besides there are WAY more of you than those recalled. lol One of my best friends is a Manager for AA and was with TWA. We stayed best friends because we chose not to venture into areas that would cause conflict or would compromise confidentiality. Pretty simple. Same at my current job. There I things I cannot discuss with my friends working with me, but that certainly doesn't affect our friendship. You may just be surprised.
Besides, it was reported today that oil may hit $100 a barrel..Nice to have that furlough cushion.

 

[aafsc]

With your hostility, it is understandable why any F/As would not want to listen to your negative rationalizations for 5 hours.

I'm not a flight attendant.

 

[L1011Ret]

I'm not a flight attendant.

no but you did say you would not want to listen to a TWA F/A complain for 5 hours while you were riding on an airplane.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

no but you did say you would not want to listen to a TWA F/A complain for 5 hours while you were riding on an airplane.

I don't want to listen to ANY flight attendant complain for 5 hours on a plane.

Unfortunately, those who scream the loudest about wanting to be treated fairly are the first ones to throw up obstacles.

I would be happy to work with a former TWA flight attendant, but I don't want to hear it for 5 hours either. That also goes for nAAtives.

 

[L1011Ret]

I don't want to listen to ANY flight attendant complain for 5 hours on a plane.

Unfortunately, those who scream the loudest about wanting to be treated fairly are the first ones to throw up obstacles.

I would be happy to work with a former TWA flight attendant, but I don't want to hear it for 5 hours either. That also goes for nAAtives.

But he was forecasting it was going to happen from a TWA F/A. So he is already projecting hostility onto the TWA f/A group, who would want to talk to him for 5 hours anyway?

 

[aafsc]

no but you did say you would not want to listen to a TWA F/A complain for 5 hours while you were riding on an airplane.

Actually what I said was that a certain nAAtive F/A probably would not want to listen to an ex-TWA complain for 5 hours on a transcon after your reference to age discrimination.

But he was forecasting it was going to happen from a TWA F/A. So he is already projecting hostility onto the TWA f/A group, who would want to talk to him for 5 hours anyway?

when I fly, I sleep most of the time.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

here we go, again...........................................

....last page and a half of this topic has been pathetic....


roger..over...and out.......!!!