APA leadership meets with USAirways executives

[BoeingBoy]

Did you notice that US' pilots are supposed to give up their change of control clause in return for $10K? Doesn't sound to me to be within a buck an hour like Jimbo thought it would be.

If you're gonna reference what I said at least give me the courtesy of putting it in the correct context.

Jim

 

[787nightmare]

Bottom line... both of these ugly girls never got asked to dance.
It is what it is......................sad.

 

[johnny kat]

Super FLUF :

According to the US DOTs DB1B database, American is the number one carrier in 610 O&D markets, serving 54,388 passengers per day of which 201, or 8,377 daily passengers, can be considered as high-yield passengers where yields are over 30 US cents per available seat mile (ASM), and 65 markets comprising 2,246 daily passengers can be considered ultra high-yield markets where yields are over 50 US cents per available seat mile.

Meanwhile, US Airways has 754 O&D markets carrying 42,283 passengers per day, with 437 of those markets carrying 21,452 high-yield passengers per day, and 158 of those markets carrying 9,390 ultra-high yieldpassengers. What this should do right away is dispel the myth that US Airways does not have a strong O&D base. On the contrary, while American has a lead in overall yields, US Airways actually performs better in terms of dominating markets despite its high fares. It is also important to look at the regional O&D variance. Less than 10% of Americans high-yield markets are in the East Coast, whereas more than 70% of US Airways high-yield markets involve the East Coast.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Great post! Very factual, I bet even WT enjoyed it. What you just described is why the arguments against a US/AA combination don't hold water. If a tie up occurs and the synergies ramp up the new AA could literally eat Delta's lunch and enjoy United's dessert.

If I were either DL or UA I would be doing my best to purchase US outright or get AA broken into pieces in order to stop the powerhouse before it gets off the ground.

 

[EastCheats]

Your attempts to frame this as a DL fanboy discussion only demonstrate your fear or inability to thoroughly examine the transaction for what it really is.

I'd say the Delta deflection has to do with qualifications or lack thereof with this propagandist who has demonstrated the inability to take criticism.

 

[AAviator]

Good read:

https://www.listbox.com/post/20120823/349743A6-ED7E-11E1-9EFD-EF9B4B639382/10158095-ceef420a

 

[AAviator]

Fighting?

They all accepted concessions except the pilots, no fight there.

AA took concessions and failed at their business, as US did under Siegel, but now US is thriving and AA's future is uncertain.

How "Thriving" would AA be with LCC's labor cost?

Perspective.... Perspective...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Super FLUF :

According to the US DOTs DB1B database, American is the number one carrier in 610 O&D markets, serving 54,388 passengers per day of which 201, or 8,377 daily passengers, can be considered as high-yield passengers where yields are over 30 US cents per available seat mile (ASM), and 65 markets comprising 2,246 daily passengers can be considered ultra high-yield markets where yields are over 50 US cents per available seat mile.

Meanwhile, US Airways has 754 O&D markets carrying 42,283 passengers per day, with 437 of those markets carrying 21,452 high-yield passengers per day, and 158 of those markets carrying 9,390 ultra-high yieldpassengers. What this should do right away is dispel the myth that US Airways does not have a strong O&D base. On the contrary, while American has a lead in overall yields, US Airways actually performs better in terms of dominating markets despite its high fares. It is also important to look at the regional O&D variance. Less than 10% of Americans high-yield markets are in the East Coast, whereas more than 70% of US Airways high-yield markets involve the East Coast.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Great post! Very factual, I bet even WT enjoyed it. What you just described is why the arguments against a US/AA combination don't hold water. If a tie up occurs and the synergies ramp up the new AA could literally eat Delta's lunch and enjoy United's dessert.

If I were either DL or UA I would be doing my best to purchase US outright or get AA broken into pieces in order to stop the powerhouse before it gets off the ground.

the problem w/ the data presented is that it is taken completely out of context.
First, it says nothing of what the other carriers have - and the fact that DL and UA all have far more markets that fit the profile of ultra high yield markets.... the author doesn't include those numbers because it wouldn't make US look quite as good.

Second, AA is not near as strong in the east coast; that is fully known - and it has given up a lot of strength in NYC. But AA has redeployed its assets elsewhere on its network which have just as much and perhaps more earning potential than on the east coast, including at its DFW and MIA hubs.

Third, what the article lacks is any perspective of costs. US does indeed gain alot of high revenue traffic - but it does it with a very high cost base operation. RJs form a higher percentage of US' operation than of its competitors.The primary advantage that US has in keeping its labor costs down is lower labor rates. There is no doubt that US' operation would not be profitable at the costs of any of the network competitors - and a large part of the questions that alot of us are asking is how Parker thinks he is going to increase revenues fast enough to cover the much higher labor costs which he will have to pay to win both AA and US labor to support the deal.

Revenue information is meaningless without knowing the costs that it takes to obtain that revenue.

The article has alot of good information but it clearly comes from the bias that AA/US is good - and he selectively used data to present his point including failing to provide information on other carrier's revenues and the costs involved in all of it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Good read:

https://www.listbox....158095-ceef420a

key quotes

"Anybody out there have any lingering doubt that US Airways is, in Parker’s mind - [background=transparent]the old[/background][background=transparent], tired wife, so to speak? You know, the one who raised the kids, put Parker through business school and so forth. US Airways is the old what’s-her-name, who now he is ready to trade in for a sporty new model! [/background]

[background=transparent]"Well Mr. Parker, like all good divorces, this one is going to be messy and very, very expensive. If you want to throw over the pilots who got you to where you are, it’s gonna be a glorious, long and very public fight.[/background]

[background=transparent]"This [/background][background=transparent]should[/background][background=transparent] be a happy time for the Pilots of US Airways; we aren’t in bankruptcy. We are making money and lots of it; for the corporation, anyhow. And yet, as of now, the only offer on the table is one in which we VOLUNTARILY jump off the nicely shaded path we are on, into the fetid swamp that is APA’s bankruptcy contract. "[/background]

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

Bottom line, as a premium passenger, US AIr services are just not on par with AA, and since UA took over CO, AA seems to be the last premium service airline left (sorry, DA still is not there). Internationally, there are even bigger discrepencies. For the 200k+ miles I fly a year, nothing domestically beats the 1st class on the 777s, and once they are done updating the wide-body fleet to the newer business class seats, game over. This is why I choose AA, and this is why I love AA. Yes I flown the so-called "better" service airlines based over-seas, but not worth the price premium nor the sub-par frequent flyer programs as compared with AADvantage.

At the end of the day I wish everyone would just be able to sit back and see things from another's perspective to understand the world is a different place, and that if you hate how much a senior member of management makes, quit your job, go back to school, and spend 20 years building a career to the point where you can be the senior executive. Its like a FA or mechanic hating a pilot for how much he makes, or an employee at Home Depot getting pissed at a Doctor for how much he makes. Its not fair and makes no sense. Trust me, investors don't like greedy management teams and more than labor......

We all choose what we do with our lives, and you can't then scream "me too, why can't I have what he has?". We don't know what that person went thru to get there, and none of us are in a position to pass judgement on the ease or difficulty of doing someone else's job. Life has never and will never be fair. Plus, if you took every dollar of compensation paid to the executives and re-distributed to the employees, everyone might get enough to go out to dinner, or maybe head out of town for a night with the wife......we are not talking big time difference to your pay-checks. Those bonuses wouldn't have any real affect on the company's current standing.

Finally, don't blame the current team for yesterday's failures. Bottom line, this airline is still recovering from the decisions made under Carty, and costs that are out of control. I'm not just talking about emplyee costs either, there are plenty of other costs in there they have had to deal with. Bottom line, as a businessman AA has a VERY good stand-alone plan, feel free to PM me and I will explain why. Its an approach that is very similar to my company's and is what has allowed my company to flourish when everyone told me my partners and I were crazy.

I admire Arpey for not heading to Chapter 11, simply for moral reasons. But bottom line this Chapter 11 is like a cleansing of sorts. With new planes, lower costs (outside of labor) and more FLEXIBLE labor contracts, I think your futures at AA are better than you think. I think the employees are better than customers sometimes give you credit for, and I think parts of this management team are better than what eh employees give them credit for.

So enough fighting amongst everyone, take the time, as much as it sucks, to look at it from the view you hate and refuse to recognize. If everyone does that, INCLUDING MYSELF, I bet everyone would be closer to agreeing on many things. Just wish I could get labor and management to do that.....

Cheers,
777 / 757 / 767

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The Unions here at AA have been company unions for so long you are finally seeing that with your white shirts/job/positions, you are no better than the rest of AA's employees. You are a number as well. You gave up money and what ever in hopes of making AA a strong and great airline and now what, your bubble is burst. AA betrayed us. The share holders are out for themselves, when are you going to get it. Taking a strike vote, talking with USAir do you really think that is going to scare the Big AA. "NO" The NMB will never release you to go on strike since we effect so much of the economy of the USA. Even by chance they did the PEB would stop it. If you walk anyway your union will be fined "again". So AA wins. Unless the unions at AA all learn to stick together act in defiance you will all go down like every other employee group in the airline Biz. You want to fight back then don't help like you do every day. You have rules, company, FAA, safety, flight, use them to show that you have power as well. They made the rules, make them live by them. NO SHORT CUTS, see how they like that at AA..

 

[Jacobin777]

I genuinely fear for alot of people if there isn't some rationality brought to this process pretty fast.

An AA/US merger is at best a bandaid approach to problems that may or may not ever be solved without much deeper change at both companies and almost certainly will not achieve the objectives that are being advertised.

If educated adults are so ignorant to believe "lollipops" from someone who's been "rejected" by a few other carriers, well, that's their decision (and problem).

US controlled non-fuel and fuel costs better than its peers; specifically, US policy to not hedge allowed it to benefit from the fall in fuel prices in May.

..and look where the cost of "black gold" has gone lately-so much for "record revenues".

Super FLUF :

According to the US DOTs DB1B database, American is the number one carrier in 610 O&D markets, serving 54,388 passengers per day of which 201, or 8,377 daily passengers, can be considered as high-yield passengers where yields are over 30 US cents per available seat mile (ASM), and 65 markets comprising 2,246 daily passengers can be considered ultra high-yield markets where yields are over 50 US cents per available seat mile.

Meanwhile, US Airways has 754 O&D markets carrying 42,283 passengers per day, with 437 of those markets carrying 21,452 high-yield passengers per day, and 158 of those markets carrying 9,390 ultra-high yieldpassengers. What this should do right away is dispel the myth that US Airways does not have a strong O&D base. On the contrary, while American has a lead in overall yields, US Airways actually performs better in terms of dominating markets despite its high fares. It is also important to look at the regional O&D variance. Less than 10% of Americans high-yield markets are in the East Coast, whereas more than 70% of US Airways high-yield markets involve the East Coast.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Great post! Very factual, I bet even WT enjoyed it. What you just described is why the arguments against a US/AA combination don't hold water. If a tie up occurs and the synergies ramp up the new AA could literally eat Delta's lunch and enjoy United's dessert.

If I were either DL or UA I would be doing my best to purchase US outright or get AA broken into pieces in order to stop the powerhouse before it gets off the ground.

It's not a "great post". The numbers aren't going to be "additive". Hubs will be shrunk, other carriers will try to take advantage while AA-US is merging, etc.

Good read:

https://www.listbox....158095-ceef420a

YIKES! What happens if the US Pilot's Association doesn't go along with Parker's plan?

Actually, ostensibly it seems they "get it".

I've been incessantly stating as to where are the numbers for everyone going to come from? It seems the US Pilots might be getting the "ole shaft" if what is written is even close to being true.

 

[Bob Owens]

Fighting?

They all accepted concessions except the pilots, no fight there.

AA took concessions and failed at their business, as US did under Siegel, but now US is thriving and AA's future is uncertain.

These latest posts reveal what a POS you have become. You come here selling concessions because of the guilt you feel about what you helped US do to your former coworkers and hope to see the two crappiest carriers merge, for whatever reason, which would renew downward pressure on wages across the industry. Sickening, its no wonder the labor movement in this country is in the shape its in.

If USAIR is thriving then why are they so desperate to get somebody, anybody to merge with them?

 

[Jacobin777]

If USAIR is thriving then why are they so desperate to get somebody, anybody to merge with them?

From the link above, ostensibly, not sure if everyone @US is.

I think Parker is a bit desperate here. Besides animosity w/US pilots, I'm not even so sure what he's going to accomplish by visiting the AA APA. It seems that he isn't interested on working on some sort of merger with AA management either.

My call to Parker..."strike three, you're out!" <_<

 

[Bob Owens]

From the link above, ostensibly, not sure if everyone @US is.

I think Parker is a bit desperate here. Besides animosity w/US pilots, I'm not even so sure what he's going to accomplish by visiting the AA APA. It seems that he isn't interested on working on some sort of merger with AA management either.

My call to Parker..."strike three, you're out!" <_<

USAIR management and 700UW.


We had a vist July 30th with Parkers team. they told us how we needed them. I remain unconvinced that USAIR has something to offer us, the only thing they may have now is a way out of this contract, however with the 55+ crowds voting record I'd much rather be withe the AE mechanics. They havent struck a deal with their guys, why would they treat us any better than they treat the guys they already have?

 

[737823]

These latest posts reveal what a POS you have become. You come here selling concessions because of the guilt you feel about what you helped US do to your former coworkers and hope to see the two crappiest carriers merge, for whatever reason, which would renew downward pressure on wages across the industry. Sickening, its no wonder the labor movement in this country is in the shape its in.

If USAIR is thriving then why are they so desperate to get somebody, anybody to merge with them?

No wonder the IAM has been in a downward spiral as you posted about, they ushered in multiple rounds of concessions. USAir is pathetic, its really no better than Spirit. The only reason they are barely profitable is because they slashed wages and benefits from their employees with the help of the IAM. No wonder organized labor is really on the downhill in this country

Josh