any rampers want to talk IAM vs TWU?

[saywhat]

LOL. What are you so fearful of? Am I asking anyone to vote for me? This vote, if any, will be between the TWU and IAM.
You won your office and did a great job smearing me but have done nothing for the members at US AIRWAYS. Again, the onus is upon YOU if you want to convince me and others to consider the IAM over the TWU. Can I just admit that I'm an ####, crude, rude, sick person so we can get through your ongoing personal attacks instead of you focusing in on the thread at hand?

Again, i'm not running for office so you should focus your energies on advising the TWU members how well you have done representing US AIRWAYS workers and how you and the IAM have made a difference. If you have to offer up personal attacks then I think you lose credibility, especially as an IAM officer.

Sheesh!

Tim,

Not everyone that criticizes you is an officer. Just an employee who thinks you are bipolar and will only hurt this membership more. Look at your posts on this thread, dogging the IAM. Are you looking for a job with the TWU organizing committee? Quit hurting this membership and leave the AMR employees alone. If you would use your intelligence to help US and AMR members I would back off, nothing personal just you can't see how wrong you are because of your ego.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Not everyone that criticizes you is an officer. Just an employee who thinks you are bipolar and will only hurt this membership more. Look at your posts on this thread, dogging the IAM. Are you looking for a job with the TWU organizing committee? Quit hurting this membership and leave the AMR employees alone. If you would use your intelligence to help US and AMR members I would back off, nothing personal just you can't see how wrong you are because of your ego.

You are an officer. We both know it. Nobody is dogging any organization other than you dogging me personally.
Again, instead of offering up personal hate and calling me bipolar among other things, how about offering up to all of us how you have helped fleet service members. Try focusing on how you personally have helped, or how the IAM has proven itself significant, instead of attacking your members, burning bridges, and offering up ways in how you think they have hurt the membership.

FWIW: Each union has alot to prove and I also think the IAM, in particular, has a chance to win if it changes its path and direction from the UA/CO transition model to a "Contract first" model. The focus that you and the IAM should have shouldn't be me or the TWU but in attaining a industry leading contract. It is disappointing that the IAM has chosen to gain more members before taking care of the members it already has. Organizing more members only helps the Collective Bargaining Agent and doesn't necessarily put any money into the members pockets. Focus on prospering the members and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[saywhat]

You are an officer. We both know it. Nobody is dogging any organization other than you dogging me personally.
Again, instead of offering up personal hate and calling me bipolar among other things, how about offering up to all of us how you have helped fleet service members. Try focusing on how you personally have helped, or how the IAM has proven itself significant, instead of attacking your members, burning bridges, and offering up ways in how you think they have hurt the membership.

FWIW: Each union has alot to prove and I also think the IAM, in particular, has a chance to win if it changes its path and direction from the UA/CO transition model to a "Contract first" model. The focus that you and the IAM should have shouldn't be me or the TWU but in attaining a industry leading contract. It is disappointing that the IAM has chosen to gain more members before taking care of the members it already has. Organizing more members only helps the Collective Bargaining Agent and doesn't necessarily put any money into the members pockets. Focus on prospering the members and the rest will take care of itself.

Tim,

Does the truth hurt? Leave the US, UA and AMR members alone and go bug DAL. Oh, and get real.

 

[nbmcg01]

Before you all even remotely consider the IAM I BEG you to study their international C&B. There is NO autonomy, NONE. The General Chairs make big bucks and do very little. You can vote on a contract and if the outcome goes against what the IAM believes is in "your" best interest, your vote will be negated. You have to vote for leadership of other locals in your district even though you may not know the people running. You are given a "white ballot" with the IAM "suggestions". Corrupt does not begin to describe the IAM!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Does the truth hurt? Leave the US, UA and AMR members alone and go bug DAL. Oh, and get real.

Why do you even presume to think that I will or will not support the IAM?

You and the other officers never cease to amaze me. There is a word called reconciliation, and it could work wonders for you especially if the IAM quits blaming its members and management for its own actions.

regards,

 

[ChockJockey]

I think it's hilarious how all of these folks who claim to despise Tim Nelson are utterly obsessed with the man and his personality. The last several months of fleet service postings on the US board will attest to this.

At the end of the day I don't know if any one acronym is better than any other but I would prefer to remain IAM instead of going back to TWU.

 

[saywhat]

I think it's hilarious how all of these folks who claim to despise Tim Nelson are utterly obsessed with the man and his personality. The last several months of fleet service postings on the US board will attest to this.

At the end of the day I don't know if any one acronym is better than any other but I would prefer to remain IAM instead of going back to TWU.

CJ,

Trying to keep him from hurting people. He helped vote down first TA which would have given you guys snapbacks and better protection language. This guy will burn the place down to get his way. Never worried that he will win office just that he will divide your workgroup and ultimately help management win all battles as long as he is around.

 

[The Bagfather]

I'm just wondering. Why anyone would not pursue a "contract first model" Are they idiots?
Do they just want to line their pocket with Billions from the company? When I got my doctorate at Harvard I took 25 labor classes all of them centered around John L. Sullivan
who first coined the term "contract first model". Since then it has been the cornerstone of every great unionist's philosophy. Now Delaney has a choice. Will he go down the road
of destruction by ignoring the "contract first model". I for one will support him if he takes the right road. Then all you AA rampers will know that the IAM is solid.

The only problem is, as a few know he's allready made the choice,. So It will be impossible to support him. Right? So why beat around the bush? Throw away those cards. The TWU's bad but the IAM is evil. Easy choice.

But seriously, I agree with CJ. The IAM is decent and so is the TWU. And I have to admit, partley because of Tim Nelson and his rants, interest in union matters has raised the level of participation and quality of participation.

So good luck to all and hopefully the outcome will be beneficial to the majority of FS, both AA and US. Above all get involved. Thanks BF

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

USAir mechanics top off at a mere 16 cents per hour higher than their AA counterparts, that's just pay and you have to consider the entire CBA

http://www.aanegotia...hanicsWages.asp

Josh

Really? I am a topped out AMT at AA and I make $32.74 hr. What does a topped out USAir AMT make?

 

[Barfbag]

What if unions started to merge with the same gusto as the airlines have?

There is no law against this, only greed prevents it.

It's merger today or death by a thousand contracts tomorrow.

 

[Tim Nelson]

What if unions started to merge with the same gusto as the airlines have?

There is no law against this, only greed prevents it.

It's merger today or death by a thousand contracts tomorrow.

The IAM sustained another significant membership loss this past year, even with the merger of the 50,000 TCU. It is now under 350,000 active. The TWU has sustained heavy losses as well and is hovering aound 115,000.

The IAM tried to merge with the USWA and UAW a couple years back but Buffy balked at it. Maybe it was the jet that blocked the deal. LOL

Seriously, with the heavy loss of members and the increased staff, the only way to stay afloat is to merge. Unfortunately, most unions don't figure this out until they get under 100,000 members. The AFA was suffering beatings but merged with the CWA and has found new life.

regards,

 

[Bob Owens]

The IAM sustained another significant membership loss this past year, even with the merger of the 50,000 TCU. It is now under 350,000 active. The TWU has sustained heavy losses as well and is hovering aound 115,000.

The IAM tried to merge with the USWA and UAW a couple years back but Buffy balked at it. Maybe it was the jet that blocked the deal. LOL

Seriously, with the heavy loss of members and the increased staff, the only way to stay afloat is to merge. Unfortunately, most unions don't figure this out until they get under 100,000 members. The AFA was suffering beatings but merged with the CWA and has found new life.

regards,

I agree, Unions must merge or die, but merging does not stop the basic problem that Unions have. Unions simply do not deliver for workers. Union executives make huge salaries compared to the members and simply stand by or even endorse deals that lower members standards of living because they dont want to take the risk that calling for a strike entails. They are averse to leading strikes because they dont have faith in their members, in other words they have no faith in their own ability to lead.

Workers will not make gains if employers are confident that Unions will not strike to defend or enhance working conditions and compensation. If workers dont see unions as a means to better conditions and pay they will not join or support unions.

Here at AA unionized line mechanics make far less than their non-union counterparts at Fed Ex, Jet Blue and Delta. If the TWU were to walk up to them and say "Hey, join the TWU, sure you will have to fork over $600/year in dues and give up half your sick days, vacation, Holidays, pay more for your medical and take somewhere between a $5 and $13/hr cut in pay but we will get them to employ more mechanics" do you think they would get many card signers? Would you sign? Unions need to remember its wages and working conditions that get members to support Unions, not increasing the size of the Union or amount of people paying dues. While seeing people furloughed is painful its necissary to preserve wages and working conditions if you want the union to stay strong. Recall and seniority provide some protection but by cutting everyone pay they may be left with a larger membership but its a larger membership that is dissapointed at being in the Union. Its extremely destructive to Unionism but it keeps Union leaders with annual pay raises and six figure salaries, for a while. Its shortsighted.

 

[Tim Nelson]

can I ask a dumb question?

If AMR Pilots are on the verge of settling for no layoff guarantees and a 15% pay increase, then why did AMR rampers settle for what I understand to be 6,000 lost jobs and only a 3% pay increase?

Can someone clarify? Where is the justice in that?

regards,

 

[700UW]

They voted on the LBO, and passed it.

 

[FWAAA]

can I ask a dumb question?

If AMR Pilots are on the verge of settling for no layoff guarantees and a 15% pay increase, then why did AMR rampers settle for what I understand to be 6,000 lost jobs and only a 3% pay increase?

Can someone clarify? Where is the justice in that?

The pilots are better negotiators than the TWU?

The offer to the pilots still includes various cost-savings provisions that increase productivity.

Denise Lynn of AA said that AA and the TWU would sit down to reduce the cost-savings from 20% to 17% for the five groups that accepted the company's LBO, consistent with the 17% cost savings in the company's LBO to the pilots. The "me-too" clause in action.