any rampers want to talk IAM vs TWU?

[Tim Nelson]

what do you rampers at AMR think of the possibility of the IAM bosses getting 4,000 cards from AMR TWU members to force an election?

regards,

 

[700UW]

Here we go, watch out AAers!

Post on the former AGW site

http://64.233.187.10...W..."twu"&hl=en

Dear American Airline FSC;
I am often asked what is the difference between Labor Representatives, i.e., the AGW and the TWU. Or to put it another way, why should someone consider switching from the TWU to the AGW.
First off, the primary reason to have a Union is to negotiate and secure a Collective Bargaining Agreement [CBA]. As I have talked to several American Airline FSC’s I have realized the cruddy, undemocratic, yet calculated job the TWU has done in representing you. In fact, I would categorize it as the TWU representing the company to you instead of you to the company. At any rate, I am not going to insult you and tell you what you already know about the TWU.
What I can tell you is what the AGW Constitution allows under the exact same circumstances. In any AGW negotiations, YOU negotiate your contract because your Negotiations team, including its chairman is from your airline and department [far different from the TWU]. Further, the Negotiations team can’t even enter into negotiations unless and until the majority of workers prioritize contract proposals. For instance, if American wants further concessions from you and you had the AGW, then any elected AGW Negotiations team can’t even enter concessionary negotiations unless the majority of workers approve and prioritize contract proposals. Remember, your Labor Representative represents you, is your advocate, and shouldn’t be in concessionary talks with your company if the members didn’t authorize them! Does this mean anything to you?
At any rate, negotiations are the ‘sacred’ for the workers so all AGW negotiations are fully disclosed to the members it represents. Each company proposal and AGW counter proposal from your Negotiations team must be on display on the AGW website for full disclosure! Further, the AGW, by Constitution, can’t sign confidentiality papers with a company because it does not allow secret, ‘cant tell ya’ negotiations. Confidentiality agreements always protect the company and always keep information from the rank and file. Further, no AGW officer has the power or authority to sign a letter of agreement without being authorized by the majority of workers.
As a side, the highest salary for an AGW officer is $61,000; Officer elections have minimal restrictions to promote greater participation; The AGW will service you with the same resources you give the TWU…your dues; And the AGW has retained a Nationally recognized law firm to represent you in arbitration cases and for other professional matters.
It’s all in the AGW constitution and I encourage you to read it. In closing, you can’t afford to keep the TWU along with its undemocratic systems. The quicker you sign your AGW card then the quicker we can replace the TWU!
Onward!
Tim Nelson, Interim Director, Allied Ground Worker

Now the President of TWU Local 512 – President Report:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
At the risk of breathing new life into what should be a dead issue, I would like to use this month’s President’s Message to express my thoughts on the group that calls itself the Allied Ground Workers. I am aware that some of our Local 512 members have been distributing literature about this organization and have solicited others to sign cards authorizing the AGW as the collective bargaining agent for fleet service. Some of you who are reading this may have signed one of these authorization cards. Members who were approached by these AGW supporters told me that they thought they were signing a petition the purpose of which was to show their displeasure with the TWU. In case it was not fully explained to you at the time, let me assure you there is more at play here than just sending a message to your TWU leadership.
This is what could happen.
As stated above, these cards indicate that the signatory authorizes the Allied Ground Workers to be the sole collective bargaining agent for fleet service employees at American Airlines. In the event that AGW were to obtain signatures from a majority of the bargaining unit system wide, they could petition the National Mediation Board for a representational election. There are three possible outcomes of such an election. If the TWU gets the majority of votes cast, the TWU would win. If the AGW gets the majority, it would win. Both of these outcomes are predicated on at least 50% plus one members of the bargaining unit casting votes for one or the other representative. The third possible outcome would occur if less than half the bargaining unit were to cast votes. If that were to happen we would have no union.
OK. That last scenario is too sickening to even contemplate so we’ll leave it be for now.
Let’s talk about the Allied Ground Workers. Who are they? Whom do they represent? What are their credentials and experience? If you visit the AGW website, you will find that their "Interim Director" is Tim Nelson and their "Interim President" is Mike Pruitt. Who are they and who elected them to their positions within the organization? The website does contain a brief "bio" on Nelson (nothing on Pruitt) that raises more questions than it answers. It appears Tim Nelson is very good at making sweeping general statements but is very stingy with supporting facts. With this in mind, one of our Local 512 representatives wrote Mr. Nelson an email respectfully asking him to clarify some of the things he states in his biography. While I give him credit for a prompt response, Nelson failed to answer any of the direct questions posed by our rep. He was, however, quick to take offense when the irony of his characterization of another Union’s system of governance as a "one man band" was pointed out to him. I am starting to suspect that Mr. Nelson is what our brothers and sisters at Local 513 might call "All hat and no cattle".
So what do we know about Tim Nelson, Mike Pruitt and the AGW? Nelson apparently works for US Airways (which just emerged from bankruptcy) though he states this nowhere in his biography and does not answer this question in the email although he was asked this directly. Nor does he answer the question of what work he does for the airline. He does not respond to a question if he was elected to his position or if he is self-appointed. He does not answer the questions of how and when the AGW was founded or whom the AGW represents. (Note: I do not believe the AGW is the bargaining agent for anyone and has never negotiated a contract.) He seems prone to making self-aggrandizing, vaguely messianic statements such as "…having Justice as a core basis of my faith and doing my best to serve it by God’s grace alone…" and "…the courtroom is empty and I am free to serve Justice."
And what do we know about "President" Mike Pruitt. Zip.
The targets of the AGW’s organizing drives are the ramp service employees from US Airways, United Airlines and American Airlines. All of these employees have suffered through painful restructuring either in bankruptcy, in the cases of US Airways and United, or under the threat of bankruptcy in the case of American. All of these employees are currently represented by either the IAM or the TWU. Apparently, the AGW is not interested in organizing employees who have no Union representation. The TWU is currently engaged in an organizing effort at Continental Airlines and spent years working to organize Delta’s ramp employees. The TWU has led successful drives to organize Southwest’s flight attendants and clerks and America West’s clerks. All of these employees lacked Union representation when the TWU began their drives. The AGW, by contrast, are nothing but a bunch of Union-busting predators. Don’t think so? Then why is one of the AGW’s biggest proponents in ORD supplying a link to the National Right to Work Foundation, an organization whose sole purpose it is to undermine organized labor, on the AGW forum website?
If there were to be a representation election and the Allied Ground Workers win, then what would happen? First of all, the contract would remain in force. A new Local would be formed and new officers elected. The AGW Constitution allows for members from more than one employer to makeup a Local so you could be in the same Local as US Airways and United employees. We could end up being led by officers who work at a different airline. An "employer specific" Local could be formed at the discretion of the National Executive Board. (I thought the AGW was supposed to have a "bottom-up" system of governance.) The TWU Local 512 treasury would revert to the TWU International and the new AGW Local would start out with zero dollars. (Under the AGW Constitution, 40% of dues money goes to the International and 60% stays with the Local. The split of initiation fees is 50-50. In the TWU, 70% of dues and 100% of initiation fees remains in the Local.) The new Local and International AGW would be subject to the same federal laws that govern the TWU and all Labor Unions in the airline industry, chiefly the Railway Labor Act (RLA) and the Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act (LMRDA).
As an officer of Local 512 I am bound by an oath to "…bear true and faithful allegiance to the International and Local Union…" and my Union is the TWU. I take that oath seriously and I do my best to live up to it. The TWU has been the …"exclusive and sole collective bargaining agency…" for fleet service at American since 1946 [TWU/AA Agreement, Article 1(a)]. No organization is perfect, just as no leader is perfect. Just as I am not blind to the internal problems of this organization, I am aware of the external forces that have plagued the industry, particularly the "legacy" carriers such as American, and have created downward pressures on industry wages and benefits. Those pressures are not only economic but political as well. The TWU has weathered many a storm in its half-century of representing employees in the industry. We have been through strikes, airline deregulation, Crandall, the demise of Eastern and Pan Am, 9/11 …but we have survived and we have prospered.
There is no question that this past year has been a horrible one for our members. There is no denying it. The TWU membership made the tough decisions necessary to keep the Company solvent and it appears that American is no longer at risk of filing for bankruptcy. Compare our situation with United, still in bankruptcy, and US Airways, just emerged from bankruptcy. Both of those airlines are asking their employees for further concessions with the threat of seeking relief from a bankruptcy judge if they fail to agree. Both United and US Airways have cut back considerably more of their operations and their workforces than American. American is poised to make a profit this year and the sooner it does so the sooner we will start to recover what we lost in the restructuring agreements. Money-losing companies do not agree to wage and benefit increases in negotiations.
Fraternally,

Glenn Harmon
President
TWU Local 512

And TIm just ran for PDGC of DL 141 and got his butt whooped! Come over and read this thread, you will see what the US rampers think of him.

http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/53460-new-iam-fleet-service-discussion/

 

[737823]

IAM=Concessions Master

AMFA 2005 NWA anyone?


Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Here we go, watch out AAers!





And TIm just ran for PDGC of DL 141 and got his butt whooped! Come over and read this thread, you will see what the US rampers think of him.

http://www.airlinefo...ice-discussion/

700,
You don't make any sense. I fought and secured the nominations of each US AIRWAYS hub against the current IAM leadership and current established infrastructure. And won the first and largest US AIRWAYS hub, PHL, in the vote a couple weeks ago. However, I could not sustain the strong lack of support at United airlines and barely lost the second US AIRWAYS hub before things became academic.

At any rate, the choice isn't between me and the current IAM 141 President, the choice in the merger will be between the TWU and IAM. Along with that choice will be inquiries about seniority, pension issues, how much are dues, etc.? All reasonable questions indeed.

regards,

 

[700UW]

And you got trounced in the real election, tell the truth.

 

[700UW]

IAM=Concessions Master

AMFA 2005 NWA anyone?


Josh

The master of misinformation posts again,, back in 1983 the TWU started it at AA, why do you keep lying Josh?

Why do US mechanics make more than AA mechanics?

 

[737823]

The master of misinformation posts again,, back in 1983 the TWU started it at AA, why do you keep lying Josh?

Why do US mechanics make more than AA mechanics?

USAir mechanics top off at a mere 16 cents per hour higher than their AA counterparts, that's just pay and you have to consider the entire CBA

http://www.aanegotia...hanicsWages.asp

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

And you got trounced in the real election, tell the truth.

Lol, 700, have you found a job yet?

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

The master of misinformation posts again,, back in 1983 the TWU started it at AA, why do you keep lying Josh?

Why do US mechanics make more than AA mechanics?

How many US AIRWAYS mechanics are there? I'd be interested in seeing the scope of each.

regards,

 

[700UW]

50% of heavy maintenance dollars must be done inhouse, it is audited monthly. It took two chapter 11 filings for the scope to permit outsourcing, you forget we won a major arbitration case against the company in regard to the airbus outsourcing.

And the mechanic and related were the only group to get pension back after it was terminated, fleet had the IAMNPF, M&R didnt.

US has more holidays, sick and vacation than their AA counterparts and AA is going to get decimated on Friday, and that truly suck.

And US doesnt have OSMs performing A&P work., AA does.

 

[lineguy43]

The master of misinformation posts again,, back in 1983 the TWU started it at AA, why do you keep lying Josh?

Why do US mechanics make more than AA mechanics?

OMG do you really want to go there? US mechanics pay SUCKS!! I personally would never work for US (or AA) under those pitiful wages. US and AA are among the LOWEST of the legacy carriers. What the IAm has at US for AMT's is nothing to be proud of.

 

[700UW]

I guess you dont realize US went through two Chapter 11 bankruptcies and are currently in Section 6 negotiations.

 

[Buck]

USAir mechanics top off at a mere 16 cents per hour higher than their AA counterparts, that's just pay and you have to consider the entire CBA

http://www.aanegotia...hanicsWages.asp

Josh

Josh

You have to consider the OSM's at AA. About 25% of the base workforce are paid a Max of $22/he.

 

[Overspeed]

Josh

You have to consider the OSM's at AA. About 25% of the base workforce are paid a Max of $22/he.

And all the work that OSMs do at AA is done by who at US? DL? CO? WN? FDX? UPS? Nobody, because that work is outsourced. Are you suggesting that we agree that all OSM jobs should be eliminated and their work outsourced at AA?

 

[700UW]

Wow, do you work at US?

50% of the overhaul is done inhouse, there is a big hangar in CLT that and several in PIT.

Dont let the facts get in your way.