Another Slap in the Face from APFA

[Skymess]

Honestly the stuff that people come up with. Now why would someone say that there co-workers are not savy,just because they like there line and perhaps the people there flying with. I'm not sure how long some of the posters on this thread have been flying for AA,not reno,not TWA or EAL or PA but ..AA and remember one of the strike issues was regarding PBS.Why would I want PBS when I can strech my unslec vaca to 21 days or bid a great line and there happens to be 1 crummy trip for my taste not your tastes but mine and I can bid myself a conflict and make it up another time and a better trip for me.There is plenty
of flexability with our trips and the bid packages are relativly small due to all the basses so it's fast to go thru. I'm based at IMA and I can use the online bidding or go thru it myself it's a small bidsheet on par with JFK.I'd hope all those who are not happy with being a F/A at AA and there working conditions are currently involved with APFA..are you info reps,do you answer the phones at various desks at APFA, do you make it a prioty to wrtie up a/c issues,inform your supervisor or base managers of needs or ways to fix things and what have you if not please reconsider your employment. And if you plan to proffer in to IMA your welcome but you better get on with a good day on our trips because thats what we do.

I could say so much.......but I'm going to refrain.

 

[boston]

I will answer the second part of your post. 1) I signed up to be an info rep and even followed up on it, but APFA dropped the ball. 2)I write up issues ALL the time, I get a polite thanks at times but no follow-up. 3) Inform my supervisor? He won't return telephone calls unless it is to put you on some sort of "step". (BTW he is a former TWA, Rick Powell, everyone I have met in his group can't stand him. Where are these understanding, helpful, supervisors you guys talked about? ) 4) I am reconsidering my employment, but I have too many years in right now to just quit.
BTW, we must not be talking about the same IMA, because everytime I have flown with IMA crews, I have noticed "The rules are different there." In other words a good percentage of your base does their own thing! (No problem for me, but hey don't spit up in the air, you know where it lands.)

Any other suggestions?

 

[boston]

Your supervisor is paid to be there for you not themselfs. I don't know were your based but you do have a base manager and you can knock on there door.One want's to be a info rep..call them again. I have always have had my phone calls returned. Randy,Juan,Brett have always been prompt as my supervisors at JFK and IMA. But if you have a concern and your not getting the help you need then go to L.Curtis and document..use the e-mail to your supervisor so its documented.Yes,IMA happens to do there own thing, JFK does there own thing as does IDF and rest so I don't know what to tell you.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Honestly the stuff that people come up with. Now why would someone say that there co-workers are not savy,just because they like there line and perhaps the people there flying with.

I never said my co-workers weren't savvy; just that pref bidding is a major change and I don't see it happening. You do make a number of good points, points which I myself pondered when the pref bidding thing was tested (but never implemented) at TWA.

There's something comforting about seeing a line on paper, knowing you can hold it and knowing which trips have to be changed once bid results are final. With pref bidding you never know for sure what you're going to get until bid results come out. Before I married and had a family, I could hold fabulous lines by being willing to fly Christmas and New Years. I figured I'd rather be in Rome or Vienna with a nice crew than sitting at home by myself, and when I look back over my 35 yr career some of my best trips were my xmas trips. And it was nice to know when I had a good crew I'd be with them all month, with the usual medicals and trades, etc.

However, I still think pref bidding would be a great thing, especially for commuters and junior people, but I don't expect to see it. And it isn't a hot button issue with me. I'll accept the junior line on the LGA bid sheet and work with it.

MK

 

[Nor'Easta]

However, I still think pref bidding would be a great thing, especially for commuters and junior people, but I don't expect to see it. And it isn't a hot button issue with me. I'll accept the junior line on the LGA bid sheet and work with it.

MK

PB will never happen at AA. That was one of the main reasons for the strike in 1993. F/A's at AA don't want it because it s**ks!

I hope you like AVBL when you get recalled. That is all you will hold, being junior at LGA. AVBL is just glorified reserve.

Hope to see you back soon.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

However, I still think pref bidding would be a great thing, especially for commuters and junior people, but I don't expect to see it. And it isn't a hot button issue with me. I'll accept the junior line on the LGA bid sheet and work with it.

MK

You're better off sticking to things you know about. You have no idea WHY we did not want to take Preferential Bidding the way AA was trying to shove it down our throats back in 1993.

The company's proposal looked great, except for the clause embedded in the proposal itself which said, "Company may IGNORE all preferences for any reason," or something to that effect.

Quit trying to portray AA flight attendants as not knowing what's good for them (as if you do...) You know nothing of what AA was trying to stick us with...and they would do the same today.

Most of us considered it very carefully, and given AA's track record, we knew that this was just way too dangerous a proposal.

 

[kirkpatrick]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='492929' date='Jun 5 2007, 05:55 AM']I hope you like AVBL when you get recalled. That is all you will hold, being junior at LGA. AVBL is just glorified reserve.[/quote]
I did a lot of work with AVBL when I was a trader in STL before the furlough. It's not great for long range planning, but beats the hell out of straight reserve with early morning callouts and airport standby.

MK

 

[kirkpatrick]

You're better off sticking to things you know about. You have no idea WHY we did not want to take Preferential Bidding the way AA was trying to shove it down our throats back in 1993.

After 35 years I know a few things, thank you very much. I don't know what was offered to you in '93. There are many possible flavors of pref bidding and I wouldn't go for any of them without knowing the details.

The company's proposal looked great, except for the clause embedded in the proposal itself which said, "Company may IGNORE all preferences for any reason," or something to that effect.

That would of course be unacceptable.

Quit trying to portray AA flight attendants as not knowing what's good for them (as if you do...) You know nothing of what AA was trying to stick us with...and they would do the same today.

Why the condescending tone? I expressed the opinion that a carefully selected version of pref bidding would be a good thing, plain and simple. I said I didn't think it would happen, and that it wasn't a big issue with me. You're the one who brought up something that happened 14 years ago.

Don't get the idea that everyone at TWA thinks everything at AA is bad. I certainly don't. For one thing, at TWA we didn't have rotating reserve. I'd be facing years of reserve if I were being recalled to such a system. I like your position bidding. No sitting by the door of the airplane waiting for the senior person to show up so you'd know where to stow your bag. Then they'd rebid on the way home if the load was lighter in another cabin (we called them loadhoppers). I like your totally automated pass system with no paper tickets to fill out and paper surcharges to turn in.

I have nothing but nice things to say about the AA employees I met in my 2+ years after the acquisition. When I was forced to commute for the year and a half after NYC flying was closed, I often commuted and deadheaded on AA flights, and never had a problem with an agent, pilot or FA on any flight. You can't judge us, and we can't judge you by a few hotheads on bulletin boards.

I'll gladly accept recall and work with your system as it stands today.

MK

 

[MiAAmi]

After 35 years I know a few things, thank you very much. I don't know what was offered to you in '93. There are many possible flavors of pref bidding and I wouldn't go for any of them without knowing the details.

That would of course be unacceptable.

Why the condescending tone? I expressed the opinion that a carefully selected version of pref bidding would be a good thing, plain and simple. I said I didn't think it would happen, and that it wasn't a big issue with me. You're the one who brought up something that happened 14 years ago.

Don't get the idea that everyone at TWA thinks everything at AA is bad. I certainly don't. For one thing, at TWA we didn't have rotating reserve. I'd be facing years of reserve if I were being recalled to such a system. I like your position bidding. No sitting by the door of the airplane waiting for the senior person to show up so you'd know where to stow your bag. Then they'd rebid on the way home if the load was lighter in another cabin (we called them loadhoppers). I like your totally automated pass system with no paper tickets to fill out and paper surcharges to turn in.

I have nothing but nice things to say about the AA employees I met in my 2+ years after the acquisition. When I was forced to commute for the year and a half after NYC flying was closed, I often commuted and deadheaded on AA flights, and never had a problem with an agent, pilot or FA on any flight. You can't judge us, and we can't judge you by a few hotheads on bulletin boards.

I'll gladly accept recall and work with your system as it stands today.

MK

I think people get a little turned off by the title of the thread. We welcome everyone back and look forward to seeing some new faces. Heres to the next recall hope your in it!

 

[kirkpatrick]

I think people get a little turned off by the title of the thread. We welcome everyone back and look forward to seeing some new faces. Heres to the next recall hope your in it!

I think people need to consider the title of the thread and why I worded it so. This isn't a rehash of the old staple debate. That's over and I accepted it as reality long ago.

We were promised TWA bidding seniority in St. Louis and that was just taken away. Not six years ago; just now. I never wanted St. Louis and never intended to go back there since I live on Long Island. All I expected was that the agreement we had forced on us be honored. It wasn't. That's a slap in the face.

I look forward to coming back to the job I've loved for 35 years.

MK

 

[MiAAmi]

I think people need to consider the title of the thread and why I worded it so. This isn't a rehash of the old staple debate. That's over and I accepted it as reality long ago.

We were promised TWA bidding seniority in St. Louis and that was just taken away. Not six years ago; just now. I never wanted St. Louis and never intended to go back there since I live on Long Island. All I expected was that the agreement we had forced on us be honored. It wasn't. That's a slap in the face.

I look forward to coming back to the job I've loved for 35 years.

MK

If this is something that doesnt effect you then why bring it up? I'm sure there is room for debate but I think alot of people considered this issue something that happened the day you were furloughed. Non the less Welcome back!

 

[IORFA]

Personally, I think that when the hashed the SIA out, they didn't think anyone would be mass furloughed out of STL. (Most will probably say they did.) Thus with the wording of the agreement, you couldn't be away from STL longer than 2 years. It didn't differentiate if you were furloughed or not. Just being gone longer than 2years. Neither AA or APFA looked far enough ahead into any and all possible situations. JMO.

 

[Skymess]

Personally, I think that when the hashed the SIA out, they didn't think anyone would be mass furloughed out of STL. (Most will probably say they did.) Thus with the wording of the agreement, you couldn't be away from STL longer than 2 years. It didn't differentiate if you were furloughed or not. Just being gone longer than 2years. Neither AA or APFA looked far enough ahead into any and all possible situations. JMO.

I agree. I think the term continuous employment doesn't cover furlough because being furloughed is being unemployed.

 

[Skymess]

After 35 years I know a few things, thank you very much. I don't know what was offered to you in '93. There are many possible flavors of pref bidding and I wouldn't go for any of them without knowing the details.

Why the condescending tone? I expressed the opinion that a carefully selected version of pref bidding would be a good thing, plain and simple. MK

I wasn't here in '93 so I don't know what was proposed.
I did preferential bidding when I flew for NWA.

I wouldn't be opposed to preferential bidding for reserve lines. I do not want it for regular line months. Having worked for 2 other airlines before AA, I can tell you that the system we have for line months is the best in the industry. My buddies at Delta, Northwest, and United are very jealous of the flexibility that I have with trading and even holding a line.

Most of the lines that are built have an opportunity for some good flying with some bad. You always have the opportunity to trade that one bad trip with another FA who is desperate for a day off or with open time. With preferential bidding everyone at the top picks the cream of the crop and the bad stuff trickles down to the bottom. Even the middle of the road seniority FA's will not have good schedules because the senior people will be eating all the good stuff up and leaving the mediocre stuff for the mids.

The online bidding tool is the best way to sort out all your preferences, using the lines we have, if you absolutely need certain days off. I have no idea how domestic DFW FA's do their bidding without it. The amount of lines they have is staggering. I had to hit the xanax just to read through the bid sheet!

Our system can be tweaked a little bit, as far as open time trading flexibility, but I wouldn't change it.

Reserve, OTOH, needs A LOT of work. The inability to trade reserve days off is simply archaic.

This is only my opinion of course. I would bet there are some senior FA's who would love it, if they could figure out how to do it....Which is doubtful. They can't even figure out how to do the online ept manual or the OSR. HMMMM :blink: ....maybe we should switch to preferential bidding...

 

[kirkpatrick]

Reserve, OTOH, needs A LOT of work. The inability to trade reserve days off is simply archaic.

My biggest beef with the reserve system is the way you're on call 24 hrs a day for up to six days straight. It's like perpetual standby, and because you're on duty, you have to have 24 hrs off after six days. This prevents long blocks of reserve days off, forcing the month to be broken up into little chunks of three here, four there.

I'd propose a system of call-in periods. We had a morning and an evening call-in, which was bid when you submitted your bid for the month. For example, a morning call-in might be 0800-1100 where you would be set up on flights departing between 1800 and 0559, the evening call-in 2000-2300 would set you up on flights departing from 0600-1759 the next day. These hours could vary depending on base, dom or int operation, etc. Computers could be used and assigned trips OK'ed or an automated phone system. A certain number of standbys would be assigned to take care of last minute openings.

So if I bid and got morning call-in and checked the computer between 0800 and 1100 and had no assignment, I'd know I was free until the next call-in. Reserve spreads could be set up in a variety of four threes, three fours, two sixes and a single twelve. We used to have senior people who'd bid reserve and hold the last twelve days of one month and the first twelve days of the next, giving them 24 consecutive days off!

No doubt someone will jump on me for mentioning TWA or telling AA FA's what's good for them. Think of it like this: I've been an AA FA for over six years now. The reserve system admittedly sucks, and many cost neutral changes for the good could be made. I'm as entitled as anyone to voice an opinion on the subject. I'd encourage an examination of not only the old TWA system, but the systems in effect at other airlines as well. Reserve isn't something that's over in a few months or a year anymore. With stagnant growth people are on reserve for years at a time. We have a contract coming up and now is the time to start discussing reasonable changes.

I'd especially like to hear from our resident schedulers on these and other ideas.

MK