Another merger committee's breakdown of the case.

[Junebug172]

Funny if you were not in dire straights why was doogie needing a loan that the banks said yes too then said no to and then went to the ATSB to get money?

Don't let the facts get in your way.

Ah, so now you have to go back to 2001 and after 9/11 to prove AWA was in "dire straights."

Pretty weak.

 

[Bud8EE]

What struck me was the paragraph about both groups being mature enough to move ahead. It's as if the NWA MC has been watching the antics of what's going on here with disapproval and wanted to make an objective observation that "burning down the house because you're pissed about the process and the result" is not good for anybody in the profession.

This profession has been heading downhill long before this mess and exactly because of things like this. Being on an aircraft that will bode well in any merger, I can understand some of the motivations the NWA MC would have in supporting this. It all boils down to a dog eat dog way of doing business and if it's not my ox getting gored, no need for outrage, especially if the ox-goring may benefit my specific circumstance. It's easy to be on the sideline and tell someone hip dip in a situation, "just deal with it", or "move on." There is no sense of empathy and there never has been or will be. The president of ALPA was more than happy(as evidenced by his action or lasck therof) to let pilots of his airline walk though the Eastern picket line and fly extra segments out of ATL. How many times have you heard pilots talk in excited speculation about how their immediate fortunes may improve(upgrade, better wages, stable company) due to the misfortune of a competitor airline and with no thought that actual real people, with wives, children, homes, and plans all being tossed under the bus. These people are just as human as the ones hoping for their misfortune and just as professional and just as skilled aviators, with the only difference between them and any other pilot being timing, luck, and the color of the paint on the side of their airplanes. Pilots don't get this, and sadly they only need to look in the mirror to understand why their wages buying power is a third of what it was 25 years ago. This unionized profession doesn't want to understand the concept of a "commune" and ALPA is largely to blame for that. It just keeps pushing the profession toward a capitalistic free for all, where only the shrewdest, most resolved, and those willing to do whatever it takes are able to ahead. Well the East guys can't feel part of any "union" at this point and the disenfranchised have to look out for themselves, and unfortunately we the profession are all going to get a good look at it. Hey, don't take my word for it. Just look at your paycheck and compare it to 25 years ago.

 

[Junebug172]

I am not confusing anything. It is apparent you are and that you are in denial.

But apparently you cant comprehend US Airways not America West raised all the money for the merger. You came to the table with empty pockets.

Do I need to post how the merger happened and who arranged the financing again?

And you still did not answer my question.

If someone came to you asking you to buy their PoS operation and offering the financing to do it thereby eliminating much of the risk, I think you'd jump at it.

Smart move on Parker's part - he got to buy another airline without using any of his money.

Works for me.

 

[hp_fa]

I guess you need to reread my post.

You were turned down by the banks, the ATSB was your only avenue to get cash.

Like I said, don't let the facts get in your way.

I would suggest that you go back and read this thread, including the newspaper article.

Thread

 

[soc-hpjester]

Excellent post HP FA, Rebuttal 700 ? And please don't post that Pittsburgh Rag article.

 

[exB717Flyer]

It is apparent you are and that you are in denial.

Since you're such an expert and state unequivocally that AWA was soon-to-be in bankrupcty (nevermind that if Chap 11 was inevitable it would've been smarter to enter sooner rather than later), please tell me what the future for USAirways was in May, 2005. Surely you're as knowledgeable of USAirway's financial condition as you are of AWA's.

 

[Junebug172]

I would suggest that you go back and read this thread, including the newspaper article.

Thread

And here's a jim-dandy article as well:

--------------------------------

US Airways, America West merge

By William Glanz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


US Airways Group Inc. announced its long-awaited consolidation yesterday with America West Holdings Corp., a merger that would turn two struggling airlines into one with $10 billion in annual revenue and extensive routes on the East and West coasts.
"We think this is the beginning of something that could change our industry," said America West President and Chief Executive Doug Parker, who will become the head of the new company.
The combination would save US Airways from liquidation, but jobs are likely to disappear locally because the new company will be based at America West's Tempe, Ariz., headquarters instead of at US Airways' Arlington office.

 

[beachboy]

Well Look Who Came to Town the Wrecked the Neighborhood! Typical.
View attachment 6010
Yee-Haw Granny. Look at that Erbus 3-2-1 I bet we can fix her up quite nice! These rich folk waist too much space!

 

[soc-hpjester]

You are too funny. :down:

 

[beachboy]

Wasn't trying to be funny. :blink: The fact is it's the sad truth. This merger is a turning out to be a disaster because BIG EGO, simple minded and cheap TEMPE AZ. America West didn't know what they were doing and botched it very step of the way. Oh Save Me Save Me Tempe....your Our Hope and Savior! Get real.
If anything AW has been the anchor dragging us to the bottom and that just the truth so swallow it. Read the DOT reports and look at SHARES. I am sure a 3 year olds Leap Frog Computer could tell you this and board the flight faster. The pilot award is a mess and it doesn't matter who bought what or whom. Lead follow or get out of the way!

 

[USA320Pilot]

Prechilill,

The US Airways pilots will never accept the Nicolau Award. The Award may stand, but the US Airways pilots have the ability to prevent it from being implemented for about a decade and there is nothing the America West pilots can do about it.

Furthermore, I guarantee you this. I will do everything in my power to right the wrongs of the Nicolau Award until I die and the ALPA PHL and PIT Reps. and I are aligned in this fight.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[JetMonkey]

The only think that's inacurate about that NWA leter is that it states both parties didn't budge after returning to the arbitrator a month later with new proposals. That's false. AWA did make some adjustments. The east of course did not waiver from their DOH proposal.

 

[A320 Driver]

Prechilill,

Furthermore, I guarantee you this. I will do everything in my power to right the wrongs of the Nicolau Award until I die and the ALPA PHL and PIT Reps. and I are aligned in this fight.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

The PHL and PIT reps should do something since they, and the pilots that support them are primarily responsible for this mess to begin with. They started this DOH mantra, backed our Merger Committee into a corner and promised their constiuants a "righteous victory". Now that it has blown up in their (our) faces, they can just hold off the award by refusing a new contract.

Lovely... now we can eat LOA 93 and it's bankruptsy wages and work rules until most of us retire and the PIT and PHL reps can call THAT a victory. Meanwhile the West pilots enjoy 10% higher wages, 25% more vacation, pay 40% less for their medical benefits and enjoy profit sharing afforded them by...GUESS WHO??? THE US AIRWAYS MEC at the EAST PILOT GPOUP'S EXPENSE.

This blows.

A320 Driver :down:

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

You were turned down by the banks, the ATSB was your only avenue to get cash.

Didn't US also receive an ATSB loan?

The US Airways pilots will never accept the Nicolau Award. The Award may stand, but the US Airways pilots have the ability to prevent it from being implemented for about a decade and there is nothing the America West pilots can do about it.

It may be that US Airways pilots will never accept the Nicolau Award as you say, but I have a feeling that management surely will find some way (a court/judge?) to implement it in one way or another. I also have the feeling that if the US Airways pilots 'mis-behave' a judge can & will spank them (similar to how AA/APA got spanked a few years back).

 

[USA320Pilot]

A320 Driver,

It sounds as if you are in this for your self and you're not interested in supporting the junior pilots.

I understand your personal position, but if you want a new contract and higher wages then I suggest you support the majority of the pilot group, the grass roots effort, and the coaltion of pilots led MEC, what some people call the RC4, and people like me to correct the injustice of the Nicolau Award.

The sooner we get an agreement with the America West pilots and a seniority integration method the parties can live with the sooner we can move on to joint contract discussions.

If the senior pilots in the top 423 (that are not supporting the other 4,100 pilots) want a new contract the best thing they can do is work together with the rest of the pilot group to right the wrong that has been handed down by George Nicolau.

Otherwise, the only way to get a pay raise is to go from reserve to blockholder, F/O's bid EMB-190 Captain, Group II pilots bid Group I aircraft, Group 1 piltos bid the A330, domestic pilots bid international, and wait until January 1, 2010 and January 1, 2011 for the two LOA 93 $35 million lump sum bonues that are about $23,000 for active pilots (if that is the forumla used to share the money).

Regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. All 3 MEC Officers, all 12 MEC Reps. and pilots politically aligned with me are in agreement on ALPA's plan of attack/action.