US Airways East ALPA MEC Conference Call Update

[lynyrdskynyrd]

It's my belief that fences would serve to allow us to all go forward as an actual group. This also seems the most reasonable solution to what's otherwise going to prove a miserable situation for everyone. I cannot imagine any semblance of "pilot unity" between east/west at this point otherwise. With out said pilot unity...we're ALL clearly left without hope for any decent contract, as mgmt can/will play west off against eaat to our mutual detriment.

I won't argue with your post, it is your view, and it may very well have merit. But so far I have only seen one person talk openly about going to war, and he is not from the west.

 

[AWA320]

Jack,

Jack said: "What does the East want to be happy? It is clear the list won't be merged based on DOH. What are the demands to make this "more fair"?"

USA320Pilot comments: In my opinion, a fair compromise would be to let the Nicolau Award stand, but negotiate an agreement between the parties for a meaningful fence that would prevent East pilots from bidding PHX/LAS crew based and West pilots from bidding East Coast bases. In addition, there would be shared growth and shared scope protections (minimum East/West fleet counts, minimum block hours, minimum pilot positions, and shared furloughs).

This way each pilot group would maintain its pre-merger career expectations and the combined pilot group could negotiate a joint CBA.

If something like this does not happen the majority ALPA East pilots are ready to go to war with their West breathern.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

That is by far the stupidest comment to date!! You are ready to war with another pilot group within the same company because you are upset at the third party award that you agreed follow in the begining. Classic, cut off your nose despite your face. Doug and company win with bonuses while you head to unemployment line based on your jaded principles...

You are far too intelligent for you own good...

 

[exB717Flyer]

Some folks are comfortable with the idea that a union isn't (and even some think they shouldn’t) in the end be responsible to distinguish an integration of its members.

You say that as if you have a better way to integrate seniority than current ALPA policy. ALPA has been around for what, seventy-five years, and has been through countless mergers. My guess is current merger policy came about for a reason.

It seems counter intuitive to me that anyone would find it acceptable to pay dues to an organization they can’t trust to handle the most basic of issues that accompanies being part of the organization to which they pay.

As Beoing Jim said, ALPA is really a collection of numerous different unions. Furthermore, the state of the industry is such that one airline's loss is another's gain. We are not only union brothers but also competitors! ALPA National is a political body that naturally favors the biggest and highest dues-payers and therefore is not an appropriate entity for deciding something as important as seniority. But take your best shot: how can seniority integrations be done fairly (which necessarily means no "one size fits all" method) if not by binding arbitration?

 

[b737fo]

Let me be totally clear! F$#k You!

Sweet post. It really contributes a lot to this thread.

 

[AWA320]

Then we're all pretty much scrooched. Barring some astonishingly generous contract...which, if we believe mgmt at all, has already been eliminated as a possibility, there's absolutely ZERO reason for the east to expeditiously get on board with ANYTHING.

I think you had better start looking into the future. This management is actively looking at another merger in fact I would suspect that it would take place sometime this fall. Look at the way the stars are aligning, the unnecessary pushing back of the single cert is but one indication of where these people are headed. It makes perfect sense for management to get involved in another transaction and tie of the process for another two years.

Now the time for these back and forth jabs at one another is over, we need to focus on what's over the horizon.

Just a thought...

Sweet post. It really contributes a lot to this thread.

Why even dignify that post with a response???

 

[Phoenix]

You say that as if you have a better way to integrate seniority than current ALPA policy. ALPA has been around for what, seventy-five years, and has been through countless mergers. My guess is current merger policy came about for a reason.As Beoing Jim said, ALPA is really a collection of numerous different unions. Furthermore, the state of the industry is such that one airline's loss is another's gain. We are not only union brothers but also competitors! ALPA National is a political body that naturally favors the biggest and highest dues-payers and therefore is not an appropriate entity for deciding something as important as seniority. But take your best shot: how can seniority integrations be done fairly (which necessarily means no "one size fits all" method) if not by binding arbitration?

Then it is agreed. APA pilots saw the forest inspite of the trees.

 

[Hope777]

That is by far the stupidest comment to date!! You are ready to war with another pilot group within the same company because you are upset at the third party award that you agreed follow in the begining. Classic, cut off your nose despite your face. Doug and company win with bonuses while you head to unemployment line based on your jaded principles...

You are far too intelligent for you own good...

AWA320, you havent seen anything yet. Our Fine Captain, oops anyway.... He is a so called Expert in his own Mind. When things do not go his way, he does things like write letters to the editor of the CLT Observer. I would NEVER get on an airplane with him....

 

[Phoenix]

..
Why even dignify that post with a response???

Why dignify it again?

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

That, in a nutshell, is what the entire "career expectations" argument is all about.

Jim

What I don't understand is how anyone that worked for East pre-merger could think they had any career expectations at all except at another carrier.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Then it is agreed. APA pilots saw the forest inspite of the trees.

As a current (though furloughed) member of the APA I wouldn't toot its horn too loudly. It's equally disfunctional as ALPA. Frankly, I think they should rejoin ALPA despite everything.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

This way each pilot group would maintain its pre-merger career expectations

LOL Careful what you wish for. Did anyone catch this? How soon we forget....Your pre-merger career expectations were zippo buddy as far as it concerned USAirways and that, by the way, is something the arbitrator takes into account sonny boy.

 

[safety stud]

What I don't understand is how anyone that worked for East could think they had any career expectations at all except at another carrier.

It is obvious you have never been through a merger, if so you would recognize the distiction. The east is the original carrier here. U which became LCC, grew from it's humble beginings of All American Airways, Pennsylvanian, Allegheny, Mohawk, Lake Central, USAir, PSA, Piedmont, Empire, and eventually AWA. So you see those of us on the east have great expectations. We grew because of airlines such as your OLD airline. Maybe its you that needs to recheck career expectations.

Just my opinion...

 

[Phoenix]

LOL Careful what you wish for. Did anyone catch this? How soon we forget....Your pre-merger career expectations were zippo buddy as far as it concerned USAirways and that, by the way, is something the arbitrator takes into account sonny boy.

If that is the case then nicko would have stappled everyone. Let me guess, you had 3 months when the announcement happened.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If that is the case then nicko would have stappled everyone.

But that would have violated the "no windfall" provision no matter what the future brings. Good soundbite, though.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

I won't argue with your post, it is your view, and it may very well have merit. But so far I have only seen one person talk openly about going to war, and he is not from the west.

Understood sir. By ALL "easties" conversations that I've had, or heard..the universal opinion's the the west fully "won" the arbitration to an obscene, and unacceptable level. I'm forwarding the small missive from an earlier poster merely to indicate some slight degree of the hostility, nay rage, currently felt throughout the east, and not as an insult to your reply in any manner.

"Let me be totally clear! F$#k You!"

While the individual direct display of emotion counts for little...it's fully indicative of "how things are" out east at present.

It's clearly in our combined best interests to get something resolved that will facilitate EVER gaining the benefits of actually becoming a "pilot group".

A huge question out east = "If these AWA guys are NOT trying to steal from us..what's their problem with fences?"