AMR CEO Horton to Get $19.9 Million in US Airways Merger

[OldGuy@AA]

Exactly. The idea for two and three tier pay came out of Finance. Led by Carty.



Nice revisionist history, but for someone who says they were there, you really don't have the facts straight.

AA and the rest of the industry were making record profits from 1997 thru 2000, the years that preceded the transaction. Some of the richest labor contracts industry-wide were agreed to in that timeframe, including one that gave the TWU some nice raises until they were clawed back in 2003.

Then there's the fact that the first attempt at US Airways and United merging was underway in late 2000; buying TWA was a defensive move against that merger, which subsequently fell apart *after* AA closed on TW.

Even the Kasher award admits this:



You also can't minimize the effect that 9/11 and the dot.com bubble bursting had on airlines. Nobody predicted those events.



Again, get your facts right. Arpey received no severance. He resigned, he only gets the pension he was already vested in. No more, no less. Same as you.

Horton will be paid, and it's because his contract is being bought out at **your** union's insistence. That's a decision **you** made thru your representation.

Forgive me if I find it a bit laughable that you have followed Carty's career all that closely.

I'd almost be willing to bet you can't name any two of the current and last three CFO's other than Horton without Googling it or breaking out an annual report...

Unless you were taking notes at a President's Conference, chances are you had no clue who Carty was when he was running Finance. It just wasn't a concern of anyone on the front lines, and likely still isn't. The only VP's people on the front line typically knew were Baker and those at in their particular reporting line.

Gee for once you are correct. I can't name the other CFOs. I seem to remember a guy named Mike Gunn but I'm not sure. But someone who spent their time at HDQ kissing a$$ and trying to get a sniff of the executive pay and benefits would have to remember who's butts they were kissing wouldn't they? I will also admit Carty and Arpey are much smarter than I am. They both led to the destruction of the best airline in world and made millions in salary and bonuses. And if you claim that profits were so great in 2000 then you must be admitting that Carty was lying when he told all of us at his president conference that we were not making any profit. So it seems you admire these guys and would like to be just like them. You would argue if someone posted that the grass was green and the sky blue. Like I said, I lived it.

 

[eolesen]

Gee for once you are correct. I can't name the other CFOs. I seem to remember a guy named Mike Gunn but I'm not sure. But someone who spent their time at HDQ kissing a$$ and trying to get a sniff of the executive pay and benefits would have to remember who's butts they were kissing wouldn't they?

I guess you've never heard the phrase "know thy enemy".... NFL players don't just show up on the field with no idea who they're playing that week. Maybe the reason that you guys fail so often at dealing with the company is that you don't bother knowing who or what you're up against.

Professional negotiators don't make that mistake, and neither do consultants. When we go work with an airline, I'm handed a bio on every exec we're going to meet with, as well a read on the internal politics (e.g. who really has the power, who has past associations with the C-level execs). It's hardly rocket science, but sure as hell helps us avoid the obvious landmines.

And if you claim that profits were so great in 2000 then you must be admitting that Carty was lying when he told all of us at his president conference that we were not making any profit.

Again, just look it up. A net profit of $985M in 1999, 813M in 2000. And a loss of $1.7B in 2001.

So it seems you admire these guys and would like to be just like them. You would argue if someone posted that the grass was green and the sky blue. Like I said, I lived it.

You may have lived it, but apparently didn't pay very close attention. If you ask me, it's an epic failure not to keep track of the company you're working for. It's irresponsible not to know what your financial situation is, who is pulling the strings, and who is controlling your fate.

If I wanted to be like them, I would have stayed. I saw what was happening, didn't like where it was heading in 2006, and left. I haven't regretted it once in the almost seven years since making the decision to leave.

 

[Just Another BK]

8 Most Overpaid/Underpaid jobs List !!!
1. Pilot vs. EMT


Overpaid job: Pilot (Commerical jetliner)
Median salary: $117,407
Despite recent cuts, pilots are still some of the most highly compensated employees in the transportation industry. While pilots must be highly skilled and trained to deal with both everyday events and emergencies (think Capt. Sully on the Hudson), many of their tasks are automated, they don’t deal with the public on a regular basis, and they get to travel. It may be a bit boring, and the travel may even get old, but it’s not a bad gig for the money.
See what other aviation jobs are available.
Underpaid job: Emergency Medical Technician
Median salary: $30,287
EMTs, on the other hand, have jobs that are anything but boring. Charged with responding to and transporting ill and injured people, often in life-and-death situations, most EMTs unfortunately have just as many devastating stories about loss as they do about saving someone's life. The job is not only incredibly stressful, it’s also physically demanding. Add in long, irregular working hours, and this is more of a calling, less of a job.

 

[Mach85ER]

8 Most Overpaid/Underpaid jobs List !!!
1. Pilot vs. EMT

One of the more dumber internet articles I've read.

 

[Just Another BK]

From a 2003 Article. From #9 to #1 !!!

What follows is a list of the 10 most overpaid jobs in the U.S., in reverse order, drafted with input from compensation experts:
10) Wedding photographers

Photographers earn a national average of $1,900 for a wedding, though many charge $2,500 to $5,000 for a one-day shoot, client meeting and processing time that runs up to 20 hours or more, and the cost of materials.
The overpaid ones are the many who admit they only do weddings for the income, while quietly complaining about the hassle of dealing with hysterical brides and drunken reception guests. They mope through the job with the attitude: "I'm just doing this for the money until Time or National Geographic calls."
Much of their work is mediocre as a result. How often have you really been wowed flipping the pages of a wedding album handed you by recent newlyweds? Photographers who long for the day they can say "I don't do weddings" should leave the work to the dedicated ones who do.
9) Major airline pilots

While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.
By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. In what amounts to a per-passenger commission, the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet. It's as much the airplane mechanics who hold our fate in their hands.

 

[700UW]

US Trustee files objection to the merger due to executive payouts.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/03/u-s-trustee-objects-to-merger-proposal-because-of-management-compensation.html/

 

[Bob Owens]

From a 2003 Article. From #9 to #1 !!!

What follows is a list of the 10 most overpaid jobs in the U.S., in reverse order, drafted with input from compensation experts:
10) Wedding photographers

Photographers earn a national average of $1,900 for a wedding, though many charge $2,500 to $5,000 for a one-day shoot, client meeting and processing time that runs up to 20 hours or more, and the cost of materials.
The overpaid ones are the many who admit they only do weddings for the income, while quietly complaining about the hassle of dealing with hysterical brides and drunken reception guests. They mope through the job with the attitude: "I'm just doing this for the money until Time or National Geographic calls."
Much of their work is mediocre as a result. How often have you really been wowed flipping the pages of a wedding album handed you by recent newlyweds? Photographers who long for the day they can say "I don't do weddings" should leave the work to the dedicated ones who do.
9) Major airline pilots

While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.
By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. In what amounts to a per-passenger commission, the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet. It's as much the airplane mechanics who hold our fate in their hands.

I guess they should say that Doctors are way overpaid as well because Interns basically do the same job nearly for free. People dont normally become Pilots so they can fly RJs. They Fly RJs so they can become major airline pilots. They are willing to work for peanuts as RJ pilots as an investment, a way to get the hours they need to get the job they want, same with mechanics in MROs, and soon, AA.

 

[eolesen]

In private practice, a doctor can charge whatever they want to. So can a pilot or a mechanic.

An intern or a resident? They're stuck on the teaching hospital's pay scale just like you are, and they have no choice because if they want to be fully licensed, they need to punch their tickets. Pilots or mechanics? Up until recently, they could progress to a higher paying job simply based on the luck of previous hiring cycles. The new minimum time requirement for pilots will limit that to some degree, and I suspect it will be eliminated or reduced once airlines can't find pilots as a result of that artificial barrier.

BTW, an attending physician at a teaching hospital makes between $120K and $150K. Hardly enough for the Ferrari's monthly insurance bill, let alone the payment.

If you want to talk about a real shortage, start watching healthcare. The number of doctors dropping out of Medicare is astounding, and public aid hospitals are already feeling the crunch. It's only going to get worse as Obamacare gets rolled out next year.

But that's what happens when government starts imposing hiring standards and managing what is a fair price.

Ten years from now, we may have East Germany's healthcare system from before the wall fell...

 

[IORFA]

In private practice, a doctor can charge whatever they want to. So can a pilot or a mechanic.

An intern or a resident? They're stuck on the teaching hospital's pay scale just like you are, and they have no choice because if they want to be fully licensed, they need to punch their tickets. Pilots or mechanics? Up until recently, they could progress to a higher paying job simply based on the luck of previous hiring cycles. The new minimum time requirement for pilots will limit that to some degree, and I suspect it will be eliminated or reduced once airlines can't find pilots as a result of that artificial barrier.

BTW, an attending physician at a teaching hospital makes between $120K and $150K. Hardly enough for the Ferrari's monthly insurance bill, let alone the payment.

If you want to talk about a real shortage, start watching healthcare. The number of doctors dropping out of Medicare is astounding, and public aid hospitals are already feeling the crunch. It's only going to get worse as Obamacare gets rolled out next year.

But that's what happens when government starts imposing hiring standards and managing what is a fair price.

Ten years from now, we may have East Germany's healthcare system from before the wall fell...

Except insurance companies are some what effective at controlling what a private doctor makes to a small point.

 

[Bob Owens]

American Airlines says CEO's severance deal is legal

Read more here: http://www.star-tele...storylink=cpyBy Andrea Ahles​

By Andrea Ahles
[email protected]
American Airlines said Friday that a $19.8 million severance package negotiated for CEO Tom Horton is legal despite objections from the trustee that it doesn't conform to U.S. bankruptcy law.
The trustee filed an objection a week ago to Horton's employment agreement, which is part of the proposed merger with US Airways.

Good deal, somebody is on the job!

American also noted that of the 300,000 parties notified about the merger agreement, only 25 responses were filed. Of those, there was only one objection, made by the bankruptcy trustee.

Thats because all the Unions agreed not to challenge it as part of their BK settlements.

AMR says the bankruptcy code does not apply in this situation because the newly formed company, not AMR, will make the payment to Horton after the merger closes.

OK, then the Unions can object because their agreement says they wont object to their BK buyouts, not post BK merger buyouts. OK APA, APFA and TWU, where are you? What about the IAM, USAPA and CWA/AFA or IBT? None of you have anything to say??? I dont think any of your members are OK with Horton walking away with a windfall that came from our concessions.

On the one hand they cite that the Creditors committee did not object then turn around and say that BK does not apply, then why cite that the creditors committee did not object?

The trustee argued that Horton's severance payment "defeats Congress' intent" in placing restrictions on executive compensation.
Those rules limit payments to current employees to 10 times the average of similar payments to nonmanagement workers, except in special circumstances, the trustee said in the filing.
"In filing the objection, the U.S. trustee is performing a policing function and ensuring the merger and bonus payments are not just rubber-stamped," Barnes said.

I agree, they slip in language saying that the unions cant protest, and based on the law that limits them to 10X they agree, then they try and slip around and slide the money in another way. They should be prosecuted let alone denied.

The Unions need to wake up and support her because we sure as hell cant count on that rubber stamp Judge Lane!!!

 

[jimntx]

Well, like the banking scandal awhile back, let's see how many execs even get prosecuted, much less go to jail.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well, like the banking scandal awhile back, let's see how many execs even get prosecuted, much less go to jail.

I said should, not would. I'm more cynical than you as far as our legal system.