2 for 1 special
AMR CEO Horton to Get $19.9 Million in US Airways Merger
- Thread starter 700UW
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Crandall had vision enough to exit this business just in time before it imploded.
Mergermania will not end until the last remaining airline declares itself a monopoly...
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Don't laugh, but I've seen more than a few people looking at Carty in a different light lately.
And they may be right -- Don (like Horton) was a bit aloof & out of touch, but I suspect he wouldn't have dragged out the BA JV. He also wouldn't have delayed filing for bankruptcy as long as Gerard did.
Compare it to how people look at Nixon today... He was despised in the 70's, but today, people take a much more pragmatic view of his Presidency. Remember that he resigned to keep the dignity of the Oval Office intact. Compared to what's taken place since (e.g. the Lewinsky-gate, Iran-Contra, various presidents since then trampling on the Constitution...), and Nixon isn't seen quite so evil anymore.
The fact that people are forgetting all the vitriol hurled at Crandall in his last few years is telling. He was the anti-Christ to the pilots and flight attendants during their respective strikes in 94 and 97, but now he's seen as an elder statesman some of you wanted to bring back before the US deal came to light?...
Time changes one's perspective. This will be no different.
What do the employees get who leave ? A lousy severance package , Horton screwed things up and is rewarded ? The word is that there has been nothing put into the AA operation for 5 years and a lot of your systems are outdated and it will be very expensive to update everything.
But the golden parachutes for the departing bigwigs will be funded!
That is of the utmost importance.
E,
I understand what you are say, the new puppy effect wears off after awhile, but Carty? Sorry, he was inept. Horton is/was better, but still not fit to be a CEO a labor intensive organization. Arpey? Sounds like a pretty nice guy, but worst of all in leadership skills.
Crandall really screwed himself more than a few times. One of the worst on the pilot side was the insulting AApology ad where they couldn't even get the union name correct and then blamed 500-800 pilots for some sick out. At the exact same time, 500-800 AA pilots had been called to active duty to fight a war in the Middle East. Needless to say it didn't go over well, especially to the AA fighter/attack guys sitting in the desert who'd been told that 20% of them might not come back.
That was a big hole for Fang to try to climb out of.
I understand what you are say, the new puppy effect wears off after awhile, but Carty? Sorry, he was inept. Horton is/was better, but still not fit to be a CEO a labor intensive organization. Arpey? Sounds like a pretty nice guy, but worst of all in leadership skills.
Crandall really screwed himself more than a few times. One of the worst on the pilot side was the insulting AApology ad where they couldn't even get the union name correct and then blamed 500-800 pilots for some sick out. At the exact same time, 500-800 AA pilots had been called to active duty to fight a war in the Middle East. Needless to say it didn't go over well, especially to the AA fighter/attack guys sitting in the desert who'd been told that 20% of them might not come back.
That was a big hole for Fang to try to climb out of.
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Hey, it's the unions who wanted Horton gone. Everything has a price, and apparently it's $19.9M.
Keeping him on would be cheaper, but this is the management you asked for. Actions have consequences.
eolesen
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Agree on all but Carty. He was (and still is) a fairly brilliant guy, especially when you consider he ran Finance pretty much thru the entire growth era from the mid 80's all the way up until Crandall's retirement.
Agree with the finance part.
I probably wouldn't have a problem with Horton or Carty as CFO today provided they were banned from the lead dog position.
Inept would decribe leading the employees. Herding cats? For sure, but for another thread that will surely degenerate into a 15 page missive between rampers.
I probably wouldn't have a problem with Horton or Carty as CFO today provided they were banned from the lead dog position.
Inept would decribe leading the employees. Herding cats? For sure, but for another thread that will surely degenerate into a 15 page missive between rampers.
$19.9 Million for Horton? Hey. This guy is going to be in between jobs for crying out loud. Do you realize that it's going to take a while to line up his next victim? He has to eat. You guys think it's easy to take a company the size of American and pi$$ off every single employee group? This kind of talent has been sought after by the BOD of AA for quite a while. I'm sure Parker will continue the tradition of rewarding himself and other chair warmers at the expense of the people who actually deliver the product. On a side note. I am always amazed at what Eolesen views as reality. I'm going to help you out here E. Go to the window and open it up as far as you can. Now........... Throw that crack pipe as far away as you can. Carty is brilliant??? hahahahahahahahahahaha
eolesen
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Perhaps, but a CEO doesn't lead employees in the traditional sense. They make the decisions on strategy and to a lesser degree, they set the tone. Arguably, setting the tone is where they've failed the most.
OldGuy, perhaps you should do a little reading on Carty. He's the guy who came up with the walkaway leases with Douglas and Airbus on the original MD80 and A300 orders. That gave AA the ability to ground the 707's and 727-023's long before other airlines started on replacing their First Gen jets, and in turn gave AA the ability to grow faster than the other pre-deregulation airlines during the 80's.
Crandall got the glory, but Carty is the one who did all the behind the scenes work while Baker managed the day to day with labor.
Don't believe it? Plenty of written history on the 80's and early 90's if you look hard enough.
So this genius became an imbicile once he became CEO? This does not make sense. I would think Carty got credit for things he did not do. One big reason for growth in the 80s and 90s was because of the two and three tier wage systems that new hired employees were given. 9 and 12 year pay progressions, no health insurance for one year. Crandall was old school and the industry had changed and passed him by. He couldn't make a good move anymore. He stood by and watched as other airlines expanded by buying other carriers. He panicked and bought AirCal. A carrier we did not want or need. He ended up giving away all the airplanes and gates that came with the airline purchase. He bought Reno Air though and made a killing on the stock his wife supposedly owned in them, but again, what do we have left from that aquisition? Carty took over and bought TWA. A carrier that was constantly in BK due to the actions of Carl Icahn. Carty gladly took on all their debt at a time when profits were hard to find in the airline industry. This one move destined us for BK. I don't need to look any of this up because I lived it. I remember shaking my head at every one of these moves and wondering who was running the insane asylum. We paid Carty $16 million to leave. We paid Arpey too and now we'll pay Horton. Carty and Arpey proved they could not do the job. Horton actually did what he wanted to do. Screw the employees using the BK process. But most of us will never understand why executives must be given millions when they prove they are inept at their job. Looks like the royal class taking care of their own.
no two for 20 million!
CEO Warehouse. Buy 1, get 1 free!!
eolesen
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Exactly. The idea for two and three tier pay came out of Finance. Led by Carty.
Nice revisionist history, but for someone who says they were there, you really don't have the facts straight.
AA and the rest of the industry were making record profits from 1997 thru 2000, the years that preceded the transaction. Some of the richest labor contracts industry-wide were agreed to in that timeframe, including one that gave the TWU some nice raises until they were clawed back in 2003.
Then there's the fact that the first attempt at US Airways and United merging was underway in late 2000; buying TWA was a defensive move against that merger, which subsequently fell apart *after* AA closed on TW.
Even the Kasher award admits this:
[quote name=Kasher Award]American was motivated to purchase TWA in order to maintain market position through acquisition, specifically in reaction to a pending United Airlines-U.S. Airways transaction -
[/quote]
You also can't minimize the effect that 9/11 and the dot.com bubble bursting had on airlines. Nobody predicted those events.
Again, get your facts right. Arpey received no severance. He resigned, he only gets the pension he was already vested in. No more, no less. Same as you.
Horton will be paid, and it's because his contract is being bought out at **your** union's insistence. That's a decision **you** made thru your representation.
Forgive me if I find it a bit laughable that you have followed Carty's career all that closely.
I'd almost be willing to bet you can't name any two of the current and last three CFO's other than Horton without Googling it or breaking out an annual report...
Unless you were taking notes at a President's Conference, chances are you had no clue who Carty was when he was running Finance. It just wasn't a concern of anyone on the front lines, and likely still isn't. The only VP's people on the front line typically knew were Baker and those at in their particular reporting line.
